Water/Legionella testing

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WICN1981
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Water/Legionella testing

Post by WICN1981 »

Hi all!

Hope all is well!

Who has responsibility for testing water/legionella in an office building with multiple companies?

We (commercial tenants) are being asked to arrange and pay for testing, but other tenants have said its the landlords responsibility.

I can only find landlords responsibility in relation to residential premises.

Any advice as always hugely appreciated!

Thanks all!
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witsd
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by witsd »

Why are you testing? Was there an issue with the legionella controls?
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
WICN1981
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by WICN1981 »

I have no idea to be honest. The building management have asked for testing to be done from all the tenants but nobody has done testing or risk assessment all the while they have been in the building, same with us, as the argument is this should sit with the landlord.
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by witsd »

Yeah, that seems very strange. It's been a good 6 years since I was doing anything legionella-related, but from what I can remember, general testing really shouldn't be used as a standard control measure unless there are some other serious issues that can't be dealt with. Usually it's a reactive measure following the discovery of a control failure.

Temperature checks, sure. Actually taking samples to a lab? Sounds like someone is taking you (or the management) for a ride.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by WICN1981 »

witsd wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:12 pm Yeah, that seems very strange. It's been a good 6 years since I was doing anything legionella-related, but from what I can remember, general testing really shouldn't be used as a standard control measure unless there are some other serious issues that can't be dealt with. Usually it's a reactive measure following the discovery of a control failure.

Temperature checks, sure. Actually taking samples to a lab? Sounds like someone is taking you (or the management) for a ride.

Cheers Witsd!

Yeah its very bizarre, what control measures should they as the building management have in place?
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by witsd »

WICN1981 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 8:17 am
witsd wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:12 pm Yeah, that seems very strange. It's been a good 6 years since I was doing anything legionella-related, but from what I can remember, general testing really shouldn't be used as a standard control measure unless there are some other serious issues that can't be dealt with. Usually it's a reactive measure following the discovery of a control failure.

Temperature checks, sure. Actually taking samples to a lab? Sounds like someone is taking you (or the management) for a ride.

Cheers Witsd!

Yeah its very bizarre, what control measures should they as the building management have in place?
Well it depends. Are there showers? Is there a cold water tank? If so, you'd expect quarterly cleaning of the showers and annual inspection and potentially cleaning of the tank. Rarely-used outlets should be flushed on a weekly basis. TMVs should be dismantled and cleaned annually. If not, annual temperature checks would likely be enough (>50 at the hot tap within... 'X' amount of time and <20 at the cold within 'Y' amount of time (forgive my memory here)).

If there are dead ends (sections of pipe that just stop, either with a closed pipe or a valve that may as well be), then that could be a problem and might warrant an actual test.

I'm gonna remind you that I've been out of the Legionella game for about 6 years now, so I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means, but ultimately, the controls ought to be determined by an independent or in-house LRA. I hope that your LRA hasn't been done by the same people who are now doing the tests...
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by WICN1981 »

witsd wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:10 pm
WICN1981 wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2025 8:17 am
witsd wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2025 4:12 pm Yeah, that seems very strange. It's been a good 6 years since I was doing anything legionella-related, but from what I can remember, general testing really shouldn't be used as a standard control measure unless there are some other serious issues that can't be dealt with. Usually it's a reactive measure following the discovery of a control failure.

Temperature checks, sure. Actually taking samples to a lab? Sounds like someone is taking you (or the management) for a ride.

Cheers Witsd!

Yeah its very bizarre, what control measures should they as the building management have in place?
Well it depends. Are there showers? Is there a cold water tank? If so, you'd expect quarterly cleaning of the showers and annual inspection and potentially cleaning of the tank. Rarely-used outlets should be flushed on a weekly basis. TMVs should be dismantled and cleaned annually. If not, annual temperature checks would likely be enough (>50 at the hot tap within... 'X' amount of time and <20 at the cold within 'Y' amount of time (forgive my memory here)).

If there are dead ends (sections of pipe that just stop, either with a closed pipe or a valve that may as well be), then that could be a problem and might warrant an actual test.

I'm gonna remind you that I've been out of the Legionella game for about 6 years now, so I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means, but ultimately, the controls ought to be determined by an independent or in-house LRA. I hope that your LRA hasn't been done by the same people who are now doing the tests...

:D I will get someone from outside, not sure what the other tenants are doing as I think one at least is refusing outright to pay for LRA and test. Thanks for the additional info!
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Re: Water/Legionella testing

Post by stephen1974 »

In a simple building, assuming there have been no changes to pipe work that have left dead legs in place, simple temperature monitoring is all you need. Its failr simple and straight forward (normal taps are easy, mixing taps where you cant have either hot or cold, is a little trickier) and can be added to other duties such as fire extinguisher checks, its thats sort of level. Even if its open to the public, you dont need much more. Maybe some flushing but only if things are not being used regularly.

Showers, or similar equiment that can produce a mist, are more of a concern and need regularly cleaning, as well as flushing if not regularly used. Again, not hard to do.

Where I suspect an issue MIGHT arise is in the buiding water supply. If its mains - you're pretty much good to go with temp checks, flushing and cleaning. If its from a tank, then its worth getting that tested annualy for damage, infestation. A small tank for your toilets isnt likely to be an issue if they are being used regularly, but big storage tanks, are.

In regards to who is responsible, landlord or tenant. For a business, they are wholely responsible for control measures. Temperature checks, flushing, cleaning, but I would say the landlord is responsible for the building risk assessment - That could be agreeing a manitenance program with the landlord, but YOU are the ones who have to have somthing in place.

Legionella is a pain in the butt for my company. We have thousands of unamanned locations and testing and flushing it not really an option. So we rip everything out where possible and tell people to pee in a bottle and use hand sanitiser. :)
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