Health and Safety for Beginners Forums

You've probably all seen a few posts from me about the fire safety i've been observing at work - well, last night they had to do a full on evacuation of several hundred people.

I wasn't present fortunately but I hear it was a bit of a poop show. Kids set off call points once and when it was reset, set it off again. No one had a clue what to do. There have been no fire drills so staff didnt know what to do and the company contracted to do security have never been spoken to about the evac plan. They tried pushing several hundred people out a single exit, ignoring the other three exits.

I was going to say its easy to do your own staffs training, but they've not even done that, but when you have security who members of the public will be looking to for direction, they have to be trained on YOUR procedures.

Hopefully someones butt gets kicked for this and training changes.

Wow! It had to happen and thankfully although it was a huge carnival, thank God it was kids mucking about and nothing more serious.

Where I was most recently employed, we had in house security who had their own bespoke training (as they will be at most risk during a fire). However we had FM contractors who were involved in cleaning and maintaining the premises - plus other self employed 'contractors' - some on long term HR and IT roles

I made it policy that front line FM staff would attend the security level training as maintenance staff worked in plant areas and cleaners worked overnight, often on their own. Self employed staff who were on a contract for 6m+ - or who had been in post 6m +, had to be treated as employees as far as fire training was concerned - and attend regular training (face to face or online)

I cannot believe the premises referred to by you Stephen is a leisure facility and open to members of the public including kids, but has virtually no systems in place to manage fire safety and evacuation. Do you think last nights event will make any changes to management attitude or will it be forgotten by Monday????

I don't think it will be forgotten on Monday, I think it will be defended.

I asked why the security team were pushing people out one exit only and was told, thats what they should be doing, its in the evac plan, its been approved by the FS. I've read the evac plan and didnt recall any such thing. Went back, re-read it, doesnt mention using a designated exit at all. Its a bit vague on what to do but the only mention of exits is to use the nearest one.

The reasoning for using one exit only, its easier to control people once they are outside.

Just because it's in the Evac Plan doesn't mean it's right.

And there's also the aspect of interpretation of the English language.

So take your use of

the only mention of exits is to use the nearest one.

The Fire Service read that and think "Great, people are going to use the nearest Exit to them as individuals in different places in the building"

Some person on the Security Team reads it and understands it to mean "herd everyone out the door nearest to where I am"....

Given what they typically pay for Security types and possibly not having English as first language... it all comes down to appropriate Training and Competence.

My manager had a week off work when this happened and then I had a week off so I've only just spoken to him. Changes are incoming.

The nonsense of only using one exit has been put to rest. Total cobblers as I thought and just a case of someone not knowing what they are doing.
Security are now to be included in the "training" though training is still just 'read the EP'.
A better list/map of what CP or sensor location to go to has been made and placed by the fire panel.

Plus some other measures for controlling the crowd. Such as not making 400 ppl in ice skates walk over a tiled floor (just found out they did this today)

No word on doing fire drills (despite the legal requirement) as they dont see the point when the building is empty and wont do it when the building is full.

stephen1974 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:50 am they dont see the point when the building is empty and wont do it when the building is full

Well it's perfectly sensible NOT to do it when full of the Public, but the whole point of doing 'Walk Through' Drills when it is empty is to ensure that staff actually know what they are doing.
Then they don't completely screw it up when doing it for real.

I agree, but it's not so easy to do in this environment.

You have lots of casual staff so getting everyone together is both difficult and not an accurate representation of what would happen.
You have a hig hturn over of staff so its increases the amount of drills you have to do.
You have varying levels of staff and public on site at different times so what works at one time is not going to work at another.
You cant close the building for training, SLA with council wont allow it.
You cant do it out of hours because of 18 hr a day operating times.

NOt excusing them. I't can be done and i've done it in other similar facilities, but I know the reasons they have for avoiding it.

At least two of the issues I raised got addressed. The locations of cp and detectors on an accessible map, and the use of all fire exits as opposed to a designated one. It's a start. I'll keep on about the drills and offer up som additional training methods for them that staff can do individually without the need for disruption to service.