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Housing Association

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Paul1979
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Housing Association

Post by Paul1979 »

In view of various recent public discussions on the subject, I wondered if any of the risk assessors on here could give us a steer on what to do please .scratch

A housing association for retired people have an elderly resident who is non-ambulant and has a room on first floor. The only way she can get out is being physically carried….

Now, the housing association don’t have any staff on site , other than irregular visits / checks. The resident in question does have carers that visit for medical reasons but aren’t there to carry the resident out of bed.

So the resident is left alone for parts of the day, unable if needed to evacuate in event of a fire. The individual cannot even get into the protected stairway .shaking

I know that a lot has been said about the involvement of the FRS in event of disabled evacuation in blocks of flats….but would anyone suggest / agree that the best thing to do here would be to contact the local FRS and explain situation and see what they suggest?? Or does the housing association have responsibility here to make sure someone is on site 24/7 to help??

The individual in question is sadly at end of life, and therefore prospect of moving them before the inevitable happens is not going to be possible.

As always, any guidance much appreciated.
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Re: Housing Association

Post by Messy »

Paul

I wish I could help sir, but this is the what happens in the real world away from the cozy offices of those who legislate. Giving the landlord the responsibility for evacuating a non ambulant person from their home is often unworkable - as this example perhaps proves.

There will be 1000s of people who cannot leave their home - even a house - and maybe 10s of 1000s of residents who could not manage numerous stairs.

I almost never say this, but having a conversation with the local fire service might be a good start. I predict they will say its all down to the FRA and is the Responsible Person's job to determine. I would be very interested to know what they say
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Paul1979
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Re: Housing Association

Post by Paul1979 »

Hi Messy - thank you as always for replying. Yes, it’s a horrible thing to think about for too long , but as you say It’s a common problem unfortunately.

I recall there being a big point made by the families of the Grenfell victims when the PAS70-02 was published (then removed!) due to apparently there being a lack of commentary relating to disabled evacuation in flats. And Mr Todd replied saying it was not reasonable to expect landlords to prepare plans for residential premises?? Im not 100% sure on the exact response I hasten to add!

We have approached local fire service today for a steer too. The FRA was prepared at a time when all residents were able to simultaneously evacuate so the FRA should be reviewed now that we have a non-ambulant resident.

The Housing Association has prepared a PEEP which basically states that the resident will be rescued by the FRS….

I will keep you posted but I fear you are right in that the FRS will throw the ball back in the housing association’s court for now.
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Re: Housing Association

Post by hammer1 »

Paul1979 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:16 am In view of various recent public discussions on the subject, I wondered if any of the risk assessors on here could give us a steer on what to do please .scratch

A housing association for retired people have an elderly resident who is non-ambulant and has a room on first floor. The only way she can get out is being physically carried….

Now, the housing association don’t have any staff on site , other than irregular visits / checks. The resident in question does have carers that visit for medical reasons but aren’t there to carry the resident out of bed.

So the resident is left alone for parts of the day, unable if needed to evacuate in event of a fire. The individual cannot even get into the protected stairway .shaking

I know that a lot has been said about the involvement of the FRS in event of disabled evacuation in blocks of flats….but would anyone suggest / agree that the best thing to do here would be to contact the local FRS and explain situation and see what they suggest?? Or does the housing association have responsibility here to make sure someone is on site 24/7 to help??

The individual in question is sadly at end of life, and therefore prospect of moving them before the inevitable happens is not going to be possible.

As always, any guidance much appreciated.

What is the evacuation strategy? I presume stay put within flats and if communal areas, simultaneous evacuation for communal areas? (mixed evacuation).

So unless the fire is within resident flat, they should be safe to stay, only when the fire is at an advanced stage then the FRS would instigate evacuation. Additional protective measures could be enhanced AFD in flat/ Telecare system (2 way comms if smoke detector activates for early warning), if there fire risks then possible portable mist system for flat?

A lot of these retirement schemes have the flats as leaseholders so very little HA can do apart from support as you cannot force someone to move

I would inform social services as well as they may need additional support there that could result in daily visits/assistance in day to day life, they may already be on a care package?
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Re: Housing Association

Post by witsd »

Have you considered installing a misting system within the flat?

There are a lot of them on the market now, and we've gotten away from the requirement for a huge obelisk to be sat in the room.

Obviously not going to help if the entire building becomes an inferno, but if there's any serious risk of that happening then you've obviously got bigger fish to fry.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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