Image

RAMS Query?

Discuss management systems in here, including - HS(G)65; ISO 45001; ISO 45003; ISO 14001

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
17
Occupation: 46 years experience with a metropolitan Fire Brigade and then Fire Safety Manager for a global brand.

Now sort of retired from the fire safety game, but doing the odd job here and there to keep my grey matter working and as I hate sudoku and havent got the back for an allotment
Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
Has thanked: 363 times
Been thanked: 660 times

RAMS Query?

Post by Messy »

I had a disagreement with a contractor this week who is planning welding from a MEWP at a height of 7m with gas cylinders in the scissor lift cage

Although the RAMS mentioned the welding and cylinders, there was no mention of the hot working part of the process or any control measures in the RA part of the document

The contractor insisted that the control of the hot works risk would be covered in the clients hot work permit issued on the day. I disagreed and said the details of the HWP would be determined by the RAMS

I insisted and they've gone off to do a re write. Just in case he comes back with more grumbles, what do you do/would you expect in these circumstances?

I want a longer fire watch period and I would like recognition that welding and grinding at that height outside means the risk area below to be cleared of combustibles or coveted, should be larger than usual
stephen1974
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 743
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:55 pm
10
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 202 times

Re: RAMS Query?

Post by stephen1974 »

I would rather see it in the RAMS, but I can understand where the guy is coming from as well. My solution would be that he has to fill out the HWP permit information in advance and return it to you so you can review it and then issue it. His assumption is you'll just rubber stamp the permit on the day. He has possibly come across the duplication of work in the past and wants to avoid it (giving him the big benefit of the doubt there)

I try to have a contractors pack that we would send out and that they have to return before work is given the go ahead.
User avatar
Blackstone
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:17 am
13
Industry Sector: Refrige / Oil & Gas / Pharma / Aerospace
Occupation: Deputy SHE Manager
Location: Kent
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 199 times

Re: RAMS Query?

Post by Blackstone »

Ideally i would like the contractors RAMS to consider the Hot Work given they will be welding. It's one of the major factors in welding and to not cover it in their own RAMS is a bit of an oversight IMHO
'Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough that they don't want to!' - Richard Branson
User avatar
chrisbramall
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 pm
17
Industry Sector: Water Utility Construction
Occupation: Managing Director
Location: Barnsley, UK
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: RAMS Query?

Post by chrisbramall »

The Client permit only really confirms that the controls detailed within the Risk Assessment & Method Statement provide adequate controls, coupled together with the specific isolations that the client is providing.

with regards the fire watch an important point to check is what the minimum hot works fire watch is detail on both your / their insurance as most insurers covering hot works normally specify a long minimum duration, on ours it 60 minutes minimum.
Chris Bramall MCIOB MIIRSM
vikymayo
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 2:21 pm
2

Re: RAMS Query?

Post by vikymayo »

I would prefer to see it in the RAMS, however I can comprehend where the person is coming from too. My answer would be that he needs to round out the HWP license data ahead of time and return it to you so you can audit it and afterward issue it. His supposition that is you'll simply elastic stamp the grant on the day. He has potentially gone over the duplication of work before and needs to stay away from it (giving him the huge opportunity to be vindicated there)
User avatar
Keith1983
Suitable and Sufficient since 1983
Suitable and Sufficient since 1983
Posts: 8330
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:08 pm
15
Industry Sector: Engineering/Manufacturing/ Construction
Occupation: H&S Coordinator
Location: Lincolnshire / South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: RAMS Query?

Post by Keith1983 »

If there was an issue and the contractor and yourself were in a court room and were asked "Why were the risks from the planned hot work not covered by the risk assessment?". What would the answer be? The risk is foreseeable and without covering foreseeable risks how can the risk assessment be adequate?
So when the whole world is safe..............what are we going to do then?
Post Reply

 

Access Croner-i Navigate Safety-Lite here for free

HSfB Facebook Group Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy