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Question on training and pay

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witsd
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Question on training and pay

Post by witsd »

One of those 'I'm sure it does exist, but I can't seem to find it' moments.

A friend has just asked me whether her workplace can make her complete H&S training at home without being paid for the ~5 hours it will take.

Surely they have to pay at least minimum wage, but where is this specified?

Best I've got so far is that the MHS regs specify that training must be completed within working hours, therefore it seems logical that hours spent after your shift completing training must be considered to be an extension of your working hours, and therefore be paid and subject to work time directive etc.?
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by Andyblue »

In these strange times, can we assume that the colleague is not furloughed but is now full time at the office / place of work?
I'll take the easy answer on the limited info, that if the person is on furlough then training can be expected to be done at home. AFAIR, the wording is along the lines of not doing any income generating work rather than NO work.

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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by witsd »

She's not furloughed, no. As I understand things, it's a restaurant, but I'm not sure of much else.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by Messy »

For fire safety training - in England and Wales- Article 21(2)e of the Fire Safety Order requires training to be undertaken "during work hours" - ie with pay

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witsd
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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by witsd »

That's the same wording as the MHSWR, I just wasn't certain about the final piece of logic!
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by stephen1974 »

Is she paid at an hourly rate. ie she effectively clocks in and out (signs in, rota hours etc)? or is she on salary?

If she is on salary then it can be argued she isnt entitled to anything extra, depending on the wording of her contract. If it specifies a maximum hourly week and she goes beyond that then she should be entitled to more money, if it says something along the lines of as and when required to meet the business needs (not the same as zero hours where you dont get paid if you dont work) then no, she probably wouldnt be entitled to more money.

If its hourly, then 100% yes she should be getting paid.

I had this 'discussion' with a company who had not paid any of its employees money for any training they had done in 5 years across two sites (including about 20 hours induction training before they were allowed to start working). A quick phonecall to ACAS and from that point on all employees were paid minimum wage for training (at the time about £2 an hour less than normal pay)

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Re: Question on training and pay

Post by witsd »

She's hourly paid, however...

Turns out that this isn't H&S training at all, it's a basic hygiene (level 2?) qualification.

So it's all down to employment law, which I think says much the same thing (i.e. if your employer requires you to get a qualification within the course of your employment, they've got to pay for it, and pay you for the time you spend getting it).

Either way, it's now well out of my area of expertise and I've let her know. Cheers for all replies anyway!
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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