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Less than 5 employees

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stephen1974
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Less than 5 employees

Post by stephen1974 »

So we know the rules are less than 5 employees you dont have to have 'written' risk assessments.

How have people found that in practice where there might be high risk activities?
How have people found that in relation to fire risk assessments?

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bernicarey
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Re: Less than 5 employees

Post by bernicarey »

Well firstly I always remind people that it is "five or more employees" which includes the 'employer' because whether you regard them as a director or whatever, they are still an employee of the organisation, so it's actually more than 4 people.
The number of times I hear said 'But there's only 5 of us' is ridiculous.

Then I remind them that they have to do 'it', whatever 'it' may be, and the exemption is only not to record it. However, since the law requires them to do 'it' then the onus is on them to prove they did 'it' to the level required by the law, so they would be much better off if they record something rather than nothing.

In regards FRAs for example, the majority of even the smallest businesses employ more than 4 people, because there's often a part timer or 2 somewhere.
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stephen1974
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Re: Less than 5 employees

Post by stephen1974 »

I think these guys will do it. They deffinately want to avoid expense, but, they also want to do things right as best as possible. I couldn't really see a way of doing a FRA without writing it down, even with this being one of the simplist buildings to do that i've come across. It does seem they only have 4 people, including the owner/director but they may have a sneaky part timer somewhere that im not aware of.

They do have the odd high risk activity as well, such as having a fork lift, which id rather they had a written risk assessment for, but it was nice to come away from an audit today with people who were well organised with their paper work, willing to listen, and have put in place recommendations from previus visits. Thought I was going to find rocking horse poop on the way out.

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Re: Less than 5 employees

Post by Messy »

I remind people that when I was a fire safety enforcement officer, if there was no recorded FRA I still had to satisfy myself that the assessment had been carried out

This meant an in depth Q&A session with the RP (like on Mastermind!!) and then verifying his answers with staff? Eg. When did you last receive fire training and what did it consist of?

Whereas for a low risk premises with <5 staff and with a recorded FRA, I would peruse the FRA, ask a few supplementary questions, view maintenance records and look at (at least) one final exit before leaving.

So an audit is much less painful witn a recorded FRA - even a bullitt point list across 2 x pages of A4 than it is to involve staff being grilled

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