Food safety

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kngc
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Food safety

Post by kngc » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:28 am

For any of you who deal with food safety:

We have a property that purchase food from a local supermarket and use this product to feed fee paying residents. From a food safety perspective and HACCP food temperatures should be checked upon delivery; clearly this cannot be done as using a probe would damage sealed packaging etc.

Does anyone else have this issue and if so, how do you deal with it? or is this something that you merely swallow as not practical?

Thx

K
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Re: Food safety

Post by witsd » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:25 am

Can you use a flat probe to check the temperature between packs?

It wouldn't be that accurate, but it seems logical to assume that it would be higher than a true probe, so if that reaches the required temperature, you would be safe to assume that the food itself is under temp.

Disclaimer: Despite working in the M&S food department in my youth, I'm not significantly trained in food safety.
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Re: Food safety

Post by bernicarey » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:55 am

So why not get an infra-red thermometer?

They're used in everything from engineering to medical fields, so why not checking food containers?
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Re: Food safety

Post by Andyblue » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:19 am

In addition to Bernicarey's suggestion on an infra-red check, have you looked at the journey from the local supermarket to your premises and whether the food will realistically maintain its temp for the journey. Is it in freezer/cool bags or pitched into the back of a van that also calls into the car wash on the way back! Just a little more probing may help towards achieving your aim to ensure temp control.

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Re: Food safety

Post by kngc » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:31 am

Thanks for the responses. I had forgotten about infra red, although these are not particularly accurate they could still be suitable for this and yes, cool bags are used.
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Re: Food safety

Post by bernicarey » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:59 pm

I had forgotten about infra red, although these are not particularly accurate they could still be suitable for this and yes, cool bags are used
I think you'll find that even the cheap ones are generally a +/- 2 deg C.
If you're that concerned about accuracy, get an expensive one and pay for annual calibration checks at a laboratory.

Given the number of Home Deliveries that supermarkets make every day, you may be somewhat over reacting to the perceived problem that doesn't exist.
Why not ask the supermarket what their delivery system requires?
Do they have records for individual vehicles that you can examine? I bet they have them, whether they wish to share them with a customer is another question.

All that said, ASDA were pick up for dirty van crates a couple of years ago. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/a ... as-9177768

Perhaps you should be wondering about that more than the temperatures?

Not that I'm a user of home deliveries, but from seeing the number of neighbours that use them, the chilled/frozen stuff always seems to have it's own compartment in the van.

You mentioned Cool Bags. Is this not a proper delivery by a supermarket home delivery service?
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Re: Food safety

Post by kngc » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:36 pm

I am less concerned about deliveries of foodstuffs as this will have separate regulations and is easily addressed, the question is more around the staff going and purchasing / transporting products themselves. The issue of temperatures only significantly arises during hot weather but is something that we need to at least look at before dismissing it as a low risk activity; particularly as our regulatory stakeholders (CQC / CIW / LA) can be very particular about the management of such risks, and rightly so!

Thx

K
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Re: Food safety

Post by bernicarey » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:23 pm

kngc wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:36 pm
I am less concerned about deliveries of foodstuffs as this will have separate regulations and is easily addressed, the question is more around the staff going and purchasing / transporting products themselves. The issue of temperatures only significantly arises during hot weather but is something that we need to at least look at before dismissing it as a low risk activity; particularly as our regulatory stakeholders (CQC / CIW / LA) can be very particular about the management of such risks, and rightly so!

Thx

K
Ahh,
now the topic is making more sense. Your original post was ambiguous, although stating
We have a property that purchase food from a local supermarket
you concluded with
food temperatures should be checked upon delivery
'Delivery' implies being brought to you, not going out to get it yourself.

As always, people are going to try and answer the question as presented, not the question that was intended......

Bottom line, do a Risk Assessment.
How far is the shop?
How effective are the cool bags?
Do you have ice packs also?
How long between receipt at the entrance to staff putting in the fridge/freezer?
What temperature is the fridge and/or freezer set at?
Might it be better to ditch the cool bags and use a 12v powered cool box?

And while you're at it...
What vehicle are the staff using?
Is it a private car?
Have they got Business Insurance cover?
Are you checking their Driving Licences?
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Re: Food safety

Post by stephen1974 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:22 am

kngc wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:28 am
For any of you who deal with food safety:

We have a property that purchase food from a local supermarket and use this product to feed fee paying residents. From a food safety perspective and HACCP food temperatures should be checked upon delivery; clearly this cannot be done as using a probe would damage sealed packaging etc.

Does anyone else have this issue and if so, how do you deal with it? or is this something that you merely swallow as not practical?

Thx

K
How is the food being delivered? A lot of trucks these days have a system to print out the temperature on a slip of paper. Ask the driver.
You could also use a laser temperature reader.

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kngc
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Re: Food safety

Post by kngc » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am

Thanks again all, some helpful feedback
Legislation should not drive Health & Safety, we should!
If common sense was common, I would be out of a job!

Health & Safety begins between the ears!

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