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Going for zero

Discuss all things health and safety.

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Reddwarf
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Reddwarf »

I would say your car example is a good one no we cannot control if some drunk slams into the side of us when we are driving along minding our own business. But we do have a police force who look to identify and take drunks of the road there for reducing the likelihood. There are many a drunk who have lost their license there for taking them of the road so reducing the risk of being involved in an accident. Again go back 20-30 years it was common practices for people to drive back from the pub drunk today it is not acceptable there for this will be reflected in accident figures despite the increase of cars on the road.

Yes there will always be accidents that you can't predict that's why we have terms like "reasonable foreseeable" and we can only do what is "reasonable practicable" but by acting on the accidents that we can foresee we are reducing the likelihood of the more obvious accidents occurring

I've never been knocked over by a car so I'm going for zero. It doesn't mean it can't happen but if i carry on what i have been doing so far then the likelihood is remote as I'm using experience and knowldege learnt to reduce that likelihood. the more experience and knowledge we gain the more likely we are not going to be involved in an accident. hence the need for Information. instruction, training and supervision.

Red

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bod212
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Re: Going for zero

Post by bod212 »

I too am very cynical with these slogans that are bandied about nowadays. Working in heavy industry and construction I see it all. I see senior managers giving these things lip service...but accidents and incidents do and will continue to occur. That's not to say that I do everything I can to prevent such things happening. But happen they will...The thing to remember is the slogan you refer to is 'going for zero', it's a target, an aim, an aspiration. It may never happen but hey, have a go. .salut
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Reddwarf
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Reddwarf »

but lets be honest, there are some idiots out there who will choose not to take a blind bit of notice
then you should have procedures in place to remove these idiots from the equation. Even law states that everyone is responsible for their and other people safety through acts or omissions.

Is going for Zero a pipe dream in some ways yes but an achievable dream many sites have gone from having several reportable accidents to zero over say a yearly period. there will always be something that will upset that achievement but maintaining that zero as an objective and everyone working towards it keeps the focus on H&S and being able to celebrate that success gets the message across the workforce the effort and time is worth while.

companies have achieved it maintaining it is the next bit.

Red

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Re: Going for zero

Post by balloon_pilot »

Re "Going for zero" surely that is setting a goal for an individual/organisation to work towards, granted you may never actually get there. Even if you have no accidents how can you guarrantee that there never will be and accident. At my place we went 600+days without a reportable accident then had two in the space of a week. all you really can do is work towards the effective controll of the significant hazards present in your workplace in order to prevent them from biting you on the b*m.

An old saying come to mind 'It is better to aim at the moon and hit an eagle than to aim at an eagle and hit a stone'.

Not that I am avocating aiming any lethal apparatus of any kind at any type of raptor species of bird or indeed any other living organism.

Terry
You will catch more flies with a drop of honey than with a gallon of gall. Abe Lincoln? Nullus excretus est ex altiudine.

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Re: Going for zero

Post by Keith1983 »

As you said earlier Dave the variable in the equation is inevitibly the pink squishy bit at the controls!

As Red has said it is part of the H&S function to identify and remove these people or even better to not put them in that position in the first place. Over the years H&S has developed from a "dont put your head in the fire" days to now where we try and look at the bigger picture as to why people do things (this links in nicely with your behavioural safety thread!) and what influences that. The modern business must consider outside influences such as stress, drug dependancy, alcohol problems etc. All of which could be argued aren't work issues but can influence performance.
So when the whole world is safe..............what are we going to do then?

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Re: Going for zero

Post by smokebelch »

I feel my opinion is being changed somewhat, like as was said, its an aspiration, doesn't always mean it can happen, but its an aim.......mmmmmm .cheers
I think its more the actual wording that I dont agree with more than the message its trying to promote if I'm honest.
I like the fact I've been able to have an open and honest debate about this though, purely because its not something you can have with the senior HSE managers on our site.....(its their way of the highway kind of mentality) and how dare you question anything we've put in place.
My apologies if any of my comments have infuriated, angered people, I just like to question and challenge, I hope you will see this as you all get to know me a little better through this board, it most certainly does not mean I'm not a 100% converted believer in H&S because I am.

Dave

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Reddwarf
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Reddwarf »

Don't worry about the wording, worry how you are going to achieve what it says. For every potential accident you identify and every change you make you will get one step closer to what the slogan wants to achieve.

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Re: Going for zero

Post by Juan Carlos »

I also believe that the Zero accidents is very unrealistic and optimistic unless you are prepared to under report. I have also been in H&S for a while and I'd like to think I'm a realistic. as much as I would like a place with "zero" accidents, I don't think is possible. I would be very suspicious of any company that turns around and says they didn't have nay accidents last year for instance. a more realistic one would be "going for zero majo0r accidents"

I'm with Dave

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Reddwarf
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Reddwarf »

i trhink when you talk in terms like this you are referring to reportable accidents rather than what might get reported in the accident report book. i think in H&S we aren't overly interested in paper cuts. So i certainly think in terms of reportable and i think that would be the industry standard when talking about accidents.
certainly at my old site with 600 employees mixed office and production then we did achieve no reportable for 2 years. then someone slipped on some steps in ludicrous high heel shoes during freezing weather. also it was dropped because it was felt by making such a big deal of the zero record it was felt you might be forcing people back to work sooner than they should do or that people would be less likely to report accidents due to a misunderstanding on what we used to calculate the accident figures on.

i think if you include paper cuts in you calculations then you are on a hiding to nothing but i believe reportable should be achievable and gain if they move a reportable to 7 days rather than 3 it should be even more achievable.

Red

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Juan Carlos
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Juan Carlos »

Reddwarf wrote:i think in H&S we aren't overly interested in paper cuts
I'm interested in ALL accidents. I can think of a few we've had which whilst not being just a paper cut nor reported under RIDDOR, resulted in nasty injuries which could have been avoided. I do agree that no reportables is achievable but having a target of "zero accidents" in the form of a slogan, for instance, even if it only refers to the reportables is somewhat misleading and could be misinterpreted by employees.

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Reddwarf
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Re: Going for zero

Post by Reddwarf »

It's a slogan

we don't don't want a paragraph with a legal statement or interpretation as to what the slogan is intended to convey. Spend less time worrying about the slogan and more time in resolving the issues that are out there. Can't help we are over thinking the meaning of 3 little words which in the bigger scheme of H&S seems somewhat wasting time and effort.

I don't have a slogan for improving fire safety i just get on with it i think slogans are more corporate based to inspire employees

Mind you i think i just found my slogan

"just get on with it"

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Re: Going for zero

Post by ddlh »

We also target zero accidents and I agree with Keith - all acidents are preventable.
And if an accident happened and was was not "forseeable" we will use the learnings to try and ensure no repeat.

My own take on this is that senior management have endorsed this zero accident goal - and are creating the conditions where all unsafe acts and conditions are challenged and reported and the learnings shared around the industry.It is down to direct supervision to manage the job and make sure the work is done safely, so they should have the tools to achieve the target or challenge why they dont. So everyone is involved
We recently went 17 months without an LTI then also had 2 in a week. So the clock reset - but we had new learnings to take into account. And one of the incidents was down to human behaviour - but we cannot eliminate the human aspect, so we look to train and safeguard it.

I also believe that any companies that expect accidents to happen to their people should not be allowed to operate.

Lets live the dream people - if you dont target something you wont get it and small steps will lead to a long path eventually

Dave
If you think safety is a pain, try a leg fracture.

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