Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

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Messy
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Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by Messy »

The London Fire Brigade and FBU are scathing as developer lowers the height of a proposed building to avoid it needing a second staircase (to comply with recent post Grenfell building regs changes).

Matt Wrack (FBU) called the matter "pretty shocking" and the LFB say its they " do not see this as deferring to the spirit of the guidance used and doesn't ethically justify this decision"

In what world would a fire safety enforcing authority use the terms 'spirit" and "ethics" when referring to an application for a legally complaint building that has been given permission by the local authority?

Its like being nicked driving at 29 MPH in a 30 zone because the copper thought the large car you were driving wasnt environmentally friendly enough........

........or have I got this wrong???

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly24l6qg6qo
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by witsd »

I guess it's the FBU saying this rather than the FRS?

More opinion piece than anything else. They aren't wrong in that it's a shrewd and money-based approach, but if they are genuinely surprised by that, then I'm not sure what world they've been living in up to this point.
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by Messy »

witsd wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 1:21 am I guess it's the FBU saying this rather than the FRS?

More opinion piece than anything else. They aren't wrong in that it's a shrewd and money-based approach, but if they are genuinely surprised by that, then I'm not sure what world they've been living in up to this point.
No, it's the London Fire Brigade coming out with the ethical and spirit nonsense.

This is the same LFB that wrote to the makers of Fireman Sam and asked them to scrap this lucrative brand and relaunch it as Firefighter Sam as it isn't the sort of gender free language used in the UK fire service

Maybe they should stick to the fire safety and firefighting roles and leave enforcing social ethical standards to others😡
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by Messy »

witsd wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 1:21 am I guess it's the FBU saying this rather than the FRS?

More opinion piece than anything else. They aren't wrong in that it's a shrewd and money-based approach, but if they are genuinely surprised by that, then I'm not sure what world they've been living in up to this point.
No, it's the London Fire Brigade coming out with the ethical and spirit nonsense.

This is the same LFB that wrote to the makers of Fireman Sam and asked them to scrap this lucrative brand and relaunch it as Firefighter Sam as it isn't the sort of gender free language used in the UK fire service

Maybe they should stick to the fire safety and firefighting roles and leave enforcing social ethical standards to others😡
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by witsd »

I don't really understand how the internal structures work. Looks like the Beeb is attributing the "shocking" quote to the FBU and the "spirit" quote to the LFB, but I don't really know how enmeshed those two would really be.

It feels like a journalist is trying to create a story here off the back of the latest Grenfell updates, and has tried to get any quote they can use from any legitimate-sounding source.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by 1804 »

Bit rich really, a bunch of codgers trying to sound more politically correct than my 19 year old Uni student daughter. She tells me-you can't say that- and I say show me where it says I can't. It must happen every generation but media being what it is, one oik in their bedroom can moan about it on x or whatever- never used it - and get someone cancelled because they don't don't like it therefore no-one should hear it. Utter censorship.
I get the cynicism of avoiding the 2nd staircase but if it's legal who gives a proverbial?
Send LFB media policy makers to France where fire (feu) is a masculine word and see how well it goes down there.
What's French for bandwagon?
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Messy
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Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by Messy »

1804 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:47 pm a bunch of codgers
I am offended at this agist remark :shock: ;) :D :D .salut .scratch
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by witsd »

1804 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 5:47 pmI get the cynicism of avoiding the 2nd staircase but if it's legal who gives a proverbial?
Here was I, thinking that H&S was important for legal, financial and moral reasons. Such a naïve soul that I am.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by 1804 »

Messy, bear in mind I count myself within the codger category. It's just that you are more of an elder statesman in that respect.🤗 You are correct though, going back to your original post - if when I was in the feds as they say now, to you and me the police, if I had given a speeding ticket to someone doing 29 in a 30, the custody sergeant would not have accepted - to put it mildly - that I was doing it as a deterrent for those who speed. The LFB is an organisation based on what the law says, not about sentiment.
Mens rea and actus reus. Without both and especially the latter you are not breaking the law. Opinion is neither here nor there, and public policy is not decided by medium ranking public servants, thank goodness. Soundbites diminish what should be apolitical organisations.
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Re: Developer Under Attack for 'Unethical'- but Legally Complaint Building!!

Post by 1804 »

Adding, of course, guilty until proved innocent in h&s law-so failing to prevent a Legionella spread, even if it hasn't happened, will get you the same punishment as if it had. Minority report stuff. Others - conspiracy to ...etc.
Pickpockets used to get off in court if the pocket they tried to dip had nothing in it, saying it was an impossible crime - until the Criminal Attempts Act which made the attempt as much a crime even if unsuccessful.
There we go. Life's too short to worry about it.
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