Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

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stephen1974
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Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by stephen1974 »

Anyone any experience with these? They have been designed for EV fires but I know nothing else about them. Are they any real use or are they just a placebo? how do they put out lithium based fires?
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by Messy »

Be very careful when buying these extinguishers. My understanding is they can be effective in certain and rare circumstances, but are not the one size fits all solution for lithium batteries

My last employers bought lithium batteries and altered them in a research workshop for use on specialist applications.

We also ran EVs and had a separate workshop for vehicle repairs

Upon investigation and following an assessment, we bought the special lithium extinguishers (sorry can't recall the brand) for the workshop as it was in a difficult tall building with 24hr staffing who were trained in first aid firefighting and most importantly, the lithium cells were often exposed during the work and when stored in a walk in fridge

We didn't buy them for the vehicle workshop. The building was sprinklered and the lithium cells were contained in large cartridges that would possibly obstruct access for the extinguishing agent

Lastly, excuse the pun but I had my fingers burned recommending and installing fire safety equipment before that had no British, European or US standard. The equipment proved not fit for purpose (video smoke detection) so I decided from that experience only to run kit that's been recommended by a trusted standard such as BS in the UK or NFSA in the USA

At the time of considering the lithium battery extinguishers, no such standard was available. That may have changed
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by stephen1974 »

Not looking to buy, just educate myself. This was something I knew was being developed when I was in the car industry but something popped up the other day about lith-ex extinguishers and i just wondered how far they had come.
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by grim72 »

I'd recommend not using these ones perhaps? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cgllkjexkrgo

It is a worry that is there no legal standpoint on this in terms of what extinguishers to use on battery fires when the sheer volume of products using lithium batteries (and subsequently the growing number of fires involved with them) is growing so rapidly. My understanding is that AVD/Lith-ex extinguishers are labelled as per the manufacturer's recommendations (hence some say they are suitable for Class D fires and some don't).

It would be nice to have some formal and legal requirements for these new types of extinguisher that are becoming more common place on the market.
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by 1804 »

Hi all
Just a query, has anyone procured any of the avd or allfire(!) extinguishers and if so, are they any good? The prices have come down and I didn't know if anyone had dabbled.
Cheers
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by Messy »

1804 wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2024 3:28 pm Hi all
Just a query, has anyone procured any of the avd or allfire(!) extinguishers and if so, are they any good? The prices have come down and I didn't know if anyone had dabbled.
Cheers
Martin
It was AVD extinguishers we bought for our workshops (see previous post here). The work there often involved large numbers of exposed batteries (not in a cartridge) so it seemed a good idea. As whether they are any good, that is a tough call as of course we didnt use them in the time before I resigned.

One problem was training. The extinguishers were too expensive to use for training and we had a lot of technical and security staff. A RA showed the most likely time for a fire was as the research staff were working on the batteries so we concentrated on focusing our training just for the technicians

However we had to alter the training to all Wardens and Security Staff as our mantra was staff should only attempt to deal with 'small & simple' fires. Lithium fires may be small, but they aint simple.

Unless there is going to be a time when you can get the wet stuff directly on the hot stuff, I doubt they are worth it TBH. We didnt supply them to our vehicle workshop as pretty much all of their work would be with cartridges filled with batteries - so not real opportunity to get at the batteries with the extinguishing agent
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by 1804 »

I did a fra at a new place on White Hart Lane - North london - and they were a space for a fleet of electric vehicles, like Ocado vans, to get recharged. I won't say the name of the organisation but they kept asking me if there needed to be an extinguisher for each charging station and if so, what type. I did not know about the existence of avd extinguishers at the time so I tried to ask other assessors in the organisation I was working for but no one had a clue. Wish I had thought to give you a shout Messy.
Ah well. My advice was to get the proverbial away from the fire, potential fuel sources to removed etc. Went to LFB and at that time they wouldn't give me a straight answer about what precautions to take. Only time I have not been able to give appropriate advice. They ended up going back to the company who installed the kit but again got no joy. Left that job a few days later. Very unsatisfactory end.
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by witsd »

The old 'bucket of sand' is a pretty sensible approach, no? (So long as it's entirely dry).
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by Messy »

witsd wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 12:53 am The old 'bucket of sand' is a pretty sensible approach, no? (So long as it's entirely dry).

I would be happy with wet sand as my policy would be take the bucket to a safe area, tip the sand out, sit on the upturned bucket and leave the fire service to deal with the lithium or any metal fire.

My daughter works in a premises where casting happens regularly using sand moulds. It's critical the sand is dry but even the guys who do this every day get it wrong sometimes eading to some interesting indoor firework displays

Sand buckets, like child chimney sweeps and polio, need to be kept in history books and nowhere near lithium fires 😳
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by witsd »

Messy wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 12:04 pmSand buckets, like child chimney sweeps and polio, need to be kept in history books and nowhere near lithium fires 😳
Really that bad?

I'm very curious as to how the guys in your example get it wrong. How is their sand getting damp?
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by Messy »

witsd wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 6:03 pm
Messy wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2024 12:04 pmSand buckets, like child chimney sweeps and polio, need to be kept in history books and nowhere near lithium fires 😳
Really that bad?

I'm very curious as to how the guys in your example get it wrong. How is their sand getting damp?
I am not exactly sure. Just ambient moisture I think. I know its some kind of special technical casting (?) which requires completely dry silver sand. They are supposed to check it before work starts, but.......

I will ask her
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Re: Lith Ex fire Extinguishers

Post by 1804 »

Witsd

I am sorry to make this juvenile, but 'how does their sand get damp' is the funniest double entendre I have heard since Benny Hill crashed his milk float. Messy, make the answer funnier than the question if you can.....

Martin
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