RAMS Query?
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- Messy
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RAMS Query?
I had a disagreement with a contractor this week who is planning welding from a MEWP at a height of 7m with gas cylinders in the scissor lift cage
Although the RAMS mentioned the welding and cylinders, there was no mention of the hot working part of the process or any control measures in the RA part of the document
The contractor insisted that the control of the hot works risk would be covered in the clients hot work permit issued on the day. I disagreed and said the details of the HWP would be determined by the RAMS
I insisted and they've gone off to do a re write. Just in case he comes back with more grumbles, what do you do/would you expect in these circumstances?
I want a longer fire watch period and I would like recognition that welding and grinding at that height outside means the risk area below to be cleared of combustibles or coveted, should be larger than usual
Although the RAMS mentioned the welding and cylinders, there was no mention of the hot working part of the process or any control measures in the RA part of the document
The contractor insisted that the control of the hot works risk would be covered in the clients hot work permit issued on the day. I disagreed and said the details of the HWP would be determined by the RAMS
I insisted and they've gone off to do a re write. Just in case he comes back with more grumbles, what do you do/would you expect in these circumstances?
I want a longer fire watch period and I would like recognition that welding and grinding at that height outside means the risk area below to be cleared of combustibles or coveted, should be larger than usual
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- Anorak Extraordinaire
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Re: RAMS Query?
I would rather see it in the RAMS, but I can understand where the guy is coming from as well. My solution would be that he has to fill out the HWP permit information in advance and return it to you so you can review it and then issue it. His assumption is you'll just rubber stamp the permit on the day. He has possibly come across the duplication of work in the past and wants to avoid it (giving him the big benefit of the doubt there)
I try to have a contractors pack that we would send out and that they have to return before work is given the go ahead.
I try to have a contractors pack that we would send out and that they have to return before work is given the go ahead.
- Blackstone
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Re: RAMS Query?
Ideally i would like the contractors RAMS to consider the Hot Work given they will be welding. It's one of the major factors in welding and to not cover it in their own RAMS is a bit of an oversight IMHO
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- chrisbramall
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Re: RAMS Query?
The Client permit only really confirms that the controls detailed within the Risk Assessment & Method Statement provide adequate controls, coupled together with the specific isolations that the client is providing.
with regards the fire watch an important point to check is what the minimum hot works fire watch is detail on both your / their insurance as most insurers covering hot works normally specify a long minimum duration, on ours it 60 minutes minimum.
with regards the fire watch an important point to check is what the minimum hot works fire watch is detail on both your / their insurance as most insurers covering hot works normally specify a long minimum duration, on ours it 60 minutes minimum.
Chris Bramall MCIOB MIIRSM
Re: RAMS Query?
I would prefer to see it in the RAMS, however I can comprehend where the person is coming from too. My answer would be that he needs to round out the HWP license data ahead of time and return it to you so you can audit it and afterward issue it. His supposition that is you'll simply elastic stamp the grant on the day. He has potentially gone over the duplication of work before and needs to stay away from it (giving him the huge opportunity to be vindicated there)
- Keith1983
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Re: RAMS Query?
If there was an issue and the contractor and yourself were in a court room and were asked "Why were the risks from the planned hot work not covered by the risk assessment?". What would the answer be? The risk is foreseeable and without covering foreseeable risks how can the risk assessment be adequate?
So when the whole world is safe..............what are we going to do then?
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- Student
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Re: RAMS Query?
Hi - I agree that the hot works should be covered in the RAMS, it is the responsibility of the contractor to provide a safe method of working. This can only be done by the contractor providing a detailed method statement ensuring that hazards are identified and suitable controls are in place. The clients hot work permit is issued on receipt and approval of the RAMS from the contractor.
I would certainly not except a set of RAMS where as the client I would be expected to cover the method statement.
I would certainly not except a set of RAMS where as the client I would be expected to cover the method statement.
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Re: RAMS Query?
Hi Maltman Dan.
Welcome to HSfB.
Good to have you aboard.

Welcome to HSfB.
Good to have you aboard.

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- Alexis
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Re: RAMS Query?
Maltman Dan wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:07 am Thank you - cant believe i have never stumbled across this site before!!![]()



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