Fire Doors

[clio222]

Hi looking for some thoughts/guidance if possible. Came across fire doors in a basement storeroom corridor and storage room Fire doors with corrugated steel covering all the Fire Doors The rationale I,m assuming is to protect the Fire Doors and storage rooms Fire Doors from damage caused from moving cages from the storeroom to the retail units. As the Fire Door has been modified is this a concern ??. My first thought that it would enhance the FD rating, however the metal may warp under a fire situation and hinder access. My concern is not egress as the staff would be out of the premises my main concern is for access for the Fire Service making an entry to tackle the Fire.

[Messy]

It is a good idea to protect fire doors that are likely to be damaged during business as usual activities. I wish more people would do it.

My main concern isnt firefighters (more in a minute) but the method used to attached the corrugated sheets to the door and perhaps the weight of the sheeting on the hinges. If holes have been drilled through or into the door and metal fixings (screws or coach bolts) used, they may transfer heat into the timber structure of the door more readily than otherwise would be the case. This could effect the integrity of the door in less time than its been rated

It might not be a huge risk if fire loading is low to moderate and means of escape is for ambulant/non sleeping persons and there is likely to be a rapid evacuation in the event of a fire. Your professional judgement when examining the fixings and considering the escape times will feed your RA. You may wish to witness a fire evacuation drill to confirm your predictions

As for firefighters, while its very laudable to consider their safety, but a FRA under the Fire Safety Order really only needs to (legally) consider risks to 'relevant persons'. Firefighters splashing water in an emergency are not relevant persons.


“relevant persons” means—
(a)any person (including the responsible person) who is or may be lawfully on the premises; and
(b)any person in the immediate vicinity of the premises who is at risk from a fire on the premises,
but does not include a fire-fighter who is carrying out his duties in relation to a function of a fire and rescue authority under section 7, 8 or 9 of the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 (fire-fighting, road traffic accidents and other emergencies), other than in relation to a function under section 7(2)(d), 8(2)(d) or 9(3)(d) of that Act;

[witsd]

As for firefighters, while its very laudable to consider their safety, but a FRA under the Fire Safety Order really only needs to (legally) consider risks to 'relevant persons'. Firefighters splashing water in an emergency are not relevant persons.

While true, I've always considered the SFRS when I carry out an FRA. Especially since that fatal incident where loose cabling fell down from a false ceiling and got entangled with the officers' breathing apparatus.

Risk to people? Not really, as that corridor would have been unusable long before the ceiling deteriorated and the cables fell down. Still would absolutely go into my FRA.

[clio222]

Thanks for the feedback and comment, definitely food for thought when completing a FRA

[Messy]

While true, I've always considered the SFRS when I carry out an FRA. Especially since that fatal incident where loose cabling fell down from a false ceiling and got entangled with the officer's breathing apparatus.

No, of course you are right. If your assessment finds something that may create risk for fire crews, it would be crass to ignore it just because you can!!!

I was on a course at the Fire Service College when those firefighters were killed. They have a sad and solemn ceremony when a firefighter falls that involves the ringing of a bell

It was quite moving

[witsd]

I didn't hear about it at the time, but now half my team is ex-SFRS, so we get all the grizzly information (and thankfully plenty of silly stuff too).

[clio222]

Apologies back onto Fire Doors, didn't wish to start a new thread, so piggybacked on this one.
Fire Doors in a commercial building: Documentation outlines intumescent strips / smoke seals and state that Fire Doors MUST have these to be classed as a Fire Door. I have however come across many Fire Doors which don't have these (However still labelled a Fire Door) some of which have been in situ for years whilst other are fairly new (5yr). The new doors have an official BMTRADA sticker detailing the Fire Door Installer and Certificate Number, however there is no intumescent strip in the door or anything in the door frame ?? My question is are these legally Fire Doors ??Surely an approved installer is installing correctly. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

[witsd]

Certainly there are exceptions - you won't always get intumescent strips affixed to metal or composite doors, for example. So long as they have met the standards set by the relevant British Standard then yup, sure, they are fire doors.

You would hope that there is a paperwork trail to confirm this for the newer doors...

[clio222]

Hi wistsd, they aren't metal or composite, they certainly look like solid wooden Fire Doors ??

[witsd]

Hi wistsd, they aren't metal or composite, they certainly look like solid wooden Fire Doors ??

Hmm. That is a little odd then. I'm assuming that they are rated FD30 rather than FD30S?