Covid Risk? Saw your fire door in half - that will solve it!!!!

[Messy]

For over two years, I fought pressure from management where I worked (and advice by their OH 'experts') to hold open fire doors to increase ventilation in an effort to control covid. I won as I was able to successfully show evidence of the outcomes of poor compartmentation in the event of fire during a angry board meeting.

Now I see the Scottish Govt are issuing advice to schools to trim the bottom off of fire doors to increase air flow. Of course, there's the cowardly 'subject to a risk assessment' caveat that puts the responsibility back to those responsible for fire safety.

Whilst I accept the risk profile for a care home is different from a school, have the Scottish Govt forgotten the Rosepark fire in 2004 that killed 14 which was mainly down to poor compartmentation? Schoolchildren of course are more ambulant than elderly people, but they also are far more mischievous as can be seen by the sheer number of arson fires in schools. Plus we entrust our most precious 'possessions' to the education authority and expect them to be safe.

This idea is ill conceived and poorly researched and must be stopped.

After the mismanagement that surrounds the law which makes it mandatory for smoke detectors in homes in Scotland, now this? What the hell is going on with fire safety in Scotland? Its often been far more advanced that the rest of the UK, but perhaps not at the moment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60261400

[Alexis]

For over two years, I fought pressure from management where I worked (and advice by their OH 'experts') to hold open fire doors to increase ventilation in an effort to control covid. I won as I was able to successfully show evidence of the outcomes of poor compartmentation in the event of fire during a angry board meeting.

Now I see the Scottish Govt are issuing advice to schools to trim the bottom off of fire doors to increase air flow. Of course, there's the cowardly 'subject to a risk assessment' caveat that puts the responsibility back to those responsible for fire safety.

Whilst I accept the risk profile for a care home is different from a school, have the Scottish Govt forgotten the Rosepark fire in 2004 that killed 14 which was mainly down to poor compartmentation? Schoolchildren of course are more ambulant than elderly people, but they also are far more mischievous as can be seen by the sheer number of arson fires in schools. Plus we entrust our most precious 'possessions' to the education authority and expect them to be safe.

This idea is ill conceived and poorly researched and must be stopped.

After the mismanagement that surrounds the law which makes it mandatory for smoke detectors in homes in Scotland, now this? What the hell is going on with fire safety in Scotland? Its often been far more advanced that the rest of the UK, but perhaps not at the moment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60261400

Just like you Messy, I was horrified to hear this and even more horrified to watch the Scottish Parliament First Ministers condescending eye-rolling reply that this suggestion (of cutting the bottom off doors" was only one option to improve air flow and safety rules would be followed, ending with the questioning being "infantile". What safety rules do we have in H&S Regulations that would accept the cutting of the doors?

[Messy]

I would (reluctantly) eat my words if there was any science or meaningful research to even back up that cutting the bottom of the door is helpful for ventilation.

I sometimes think I am in a huge long dream/nightmare where I am living in a comedy sketch show. Or maybe I am ill?

In my mind, Trump was president, Boris is PM and we came out of the EU to be economically stronger ....... now the Scottish Govt are asking education managers to install the top half of a stable door as a fire door in schools. Despite it being a comedy show, none of the jokes are funny

[Alexis]

I would (reluctantly) eat my words if there was any science or meaningful research to even back up that cutting the bottom of the door is helpful for ventilation.

I sometimes think I am in a huge long dream/nightmare where I am living in a comedy sketch show. Or maybe I am ill?

In my mind, Trump was president, Boris is PM and we came out of the EU to be economically stronger ....... now the Scottish Govt are asking education managers to install the top half of a stable door as a fire door in schools. Despite it being a comedy show, none of the jokes are funny

Hear-Hear! Messy and no you are not ill!

[RPN_MSC]

That is painfully stupid. Who on earth came up with this idea?

[Alexis]

Education secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville said an estimated 2,000 doors classrooms could benefit from being “undercut to increase air flow”.

[Messy]

I have just looked her up thinking she must be completely ignorant of buildings and construction to find she has a 'Diploma in Housing studies' (whatever that is).

She was probably late in the morning they had the fire safety lecture

[bernicarey]

Taking a step back from my immediate reaction, which is the same as Messy's, I wonder if there are any details to this suggestion for actual analysis?

Let's say 10mm is taken off the bottom of classroom doors.
Does that allow a meaningful increase in ventilation as part of Covid Controls, or does it disproportionately increase the risk of smoke/flame spread?
Does it significantly breach the protection of the corridor to which it leads from the classroom?
Do we need the door to protect the corridor for 10 minutes while the school is evacuated, or an hour for the Fire Service to get a fire in the area under control?

It's not a simple tick sheet exercise for some local authority bureaucrat.


There's a lot of technical stuff that should have been looked at, including reviewing any existing Fire Door data before probably conducting some new tests, before the Scots Government floated this idea.

Incidentally, this is a newly installed Fire Door in our refurbished Doctor's practice.....perhaps 20mm gap at the bottom

[bernicarey]

I have just looked her up thinking she must be completely ignorant of buildings and construction to find she has a 'Diploma in Housing studies' (whatever that is).

She was probably late in the morning they had the fire safety lecture

They didn't cover safety, it's all bureaucrat stuff https://www.cih.org/qualifications/cih- ... in-housing

All about being ethical and strategic.....