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Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

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stephen1974
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Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by stephen1974 »

Might not come under the H&S wheel house but as we often wear multiple hats.

Children under 8 who we give first aid to. The current form I have claims it is a legal requirement under the Childrens Act that we must get a parents or guardians signature.

Never heard of this before and the Childrens Act is a huge document that im not reading. Its no big deal, Im just curious if this is genuine or cowpoop to intimdate staff into doing what a manager wants. (in fact i think it even says its a CRIMINAL OFFENCE not to get it rather than saying Legal Requirement)
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by RPN_MSC »

I do not know the answer, but surely in the instance where a child needs first aid then administering said first aid is more important than getting a form signed? I shall follow this thread with interest.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by Waterbaby »

:wave: stephen1974

A nice New Year cracker question ! clapclap clapclap

Let's start with which sector do you work in and how likely is it that you / employer will provide first aid to a child under 8 years old ?

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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by stephen1974 »

Currently working in the ice rink industry so 100% will be doing first aid on kids under 8.

Was renewing my FAW the last couple of days. The trainer knows nothing about this and he also asked his parent company and they knew nothing about this either. I think its a load of cobblers but dont want to challenge it without doing my due diligence and checking it out first. Next step is to add it in to a broader e-mail on first aid and just ask the person who wrot ethe form to let me know what part of the act it is, ya kbow, cos i like to know these things. Puts the ball in his court rather than me calling him out.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by Ian Rienewerf »

I am unaware of any special arrangements for under 8's.
A pre-school day care nursery may have more information.

Maybe the complainant omitted the one off the 18-year old age limit for vulnerable persons.
Safeguarding Regs and the Childrens Act 2004 c.31 states: "child" means, subject to section 9, a person under the age of eighteen.
The workplace regulations specify under 16's as children, and over 16-year olds who are under school leaving age as young persons at work.

I assume children at the skating rink would be supervised and chaperoned by a parent, relative, or family friend in charge of the minor, and the adult in charge could give permission on the parents behalf.
Lessons and skate club events would depend on the arrangements in place when the parents transfer care of their children to the people in charge of the activity.

Sports clubs sometimes have an indemnity statement to clarify the availability (or otherwise) of swimming life guards, first aid provision etc.
One sports club I was involved with simply transferred under-16 junior memberships onto a family membership to avoid safeguarding liabilities and the need for DBS checks of volunteers.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by stephen1974 »

There was no complaint. Its just something I picked up on. Under 8 years also happens to be the age that the industry says children cannot go on the ice unaccompanied by an adult (over 18). Just something else that suggests its an internal person coming up with this and not an actual law.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by EagleBeagle »

I also can't find anything in law that supports it or indicates such an explicit requirement. I'm cautiously leaning towards it being a load of cobblers and unfortunately it's not the first time I've heard of similar attempts to over stretch relatively innocuous provisions. Generally if it were a legal person, in my experience, they'd cite the section rather than a overly broad statement.

When I did FREC (advanced first aid), I was informed that consent was required from a parent/guardian for providing treatment for minor injuries to children under 16 years of age. Anything life-threatening or an unresponsive patient and it would fall under a common law defence of necessity up to minimum treatment to sustain life.

Do keep us informed as I'd be interested in how this form came about.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by stephen1974 »

The problem with consent is that you can't always get it in a timely manner. What are you going to do? leave a kid untreated for two hours because their parents are not contactable. Not everyone is glued to a phone 24/7. Our duty of care must override other concerns, even if its a minor injury.

Its seems there are no regulations that cover first aid that isnt based around employer and employee. The public, even when as customers, are over looked specifically and just lumped in under duty of care. In some ways I prefer that as the must do this, must do that approach would just get in the way and have people scared to do anything.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by Waterbaby »

:wave:

Would be interesting to see what your insurers have detailed in the policy?

I agree with Ian re: possibly missing out the no 1 = 18

However, the only designation that I am aware of that refers specifically to " 8 years and younger " is the use of AED and paediatric pads ( N.B preferred but adult pads can be used if that is all available ), and differences in child BLS - see below.

https://www.resus.org.uk/library/2021-r ... guidelines

https://www.resus.org.uk/covid-19-resou ... t-covid-19

I think some clarity is needed and perhaps some aspects of first aid , including BLS / AED have been confused regarding age and consent.

Given the environment, availability of child pads could be indicated as part of your risk assessment / paediatric BLS training ??

As below - 'routine' first aid for bumps, bangs and falls etc - parental / guardian consent should be sought and per your guidelines - adults will be there.

BLS / AED - presumed consent as death imminent without intervention.

Please let us know how you get on with this ;)

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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by Ian Rienewerf »

stephen1974 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:29 pm ........ Under 8 years also happens to be the age that the industry says children cannot go on the ice unaccompanied by an adult (over 18)........
The supervising adult should be able to give consent on the parents behalf = Job done.
It appears there is no issue, and no problem with supervised children.

There may be religious concerns for close contact or medical intervention - but there would be no age limit restriction for first aid due to the availability of the adult in charge of the minor.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by stephen1974 »

Your missing the point Ian.
Its not about getting it done, its about whether or not it is a law.

Your point about consent though was for under 16's and there are many many places where you will find under 16's without a parent or guardian about and you will not be able to contact them in a timely manner to get consent. Getting consent doesnt stand up to the real world conditions. Now an instructor may have said that to you on a course, but could they site a law that says you have to do this?

My issue here is with people saying something is law to intimidate people in to doing something, when in fact, it is not law.
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Re: Shot in the dark - First Aid Question

Post by Ian Rienewerf »

Yes - I did miss the point
My apologies
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