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Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

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witsd
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by witsd »

Messy wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:26 amI will not touch residential FRAs now as I can afford the PI insurance or do I think I am competent
To be frank, all that happens now is that you complete a normal FRA and mention what you have been told regarding the cladding, effectively kicking the liability further up the chain. As Mr Todd says, the average fire risk assessor is not going to be competent to determine whether the cladding is or is not acceptable.

The best part is that the new guidance effectively tells us the following:

1) There are specialists to whom you can refer cladded buildings.
2) You should only do this when you have a reason to suspect that the cladding may not meet standards.
3) You aren't qualified to determine if the cladding meets standards.

If anyone can marry all three of those up, please do let me know how.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
stephen1974
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by stephen1974 »

Well, reverse tthe order

3) You are NOT qualified to determine if the cladding meets the standards, so, ask for written evidence, If they don't have that then
2) You can suspect the cladding may not meet standards, so
1) You advise they call in an expert.
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witsd
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by witsd »

Problem is that 2) becomes 'you HAVE to suspect it may not meet standards', which means that you are going to be advising an expert examination far more often than the guidance suggests you ought to.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by stephen1974 »

Well, you wont get arrested and sent to prison for advising an expert looks at it and it turns out to be safe, but you will if you dont recommend it and people die.

I think you have to default to no documentation, then advise getting it looked at. Its just a line in a report that covers you and puts the onus on the property managers, but leave it out and you could be in the poop. Its no different than having an external fire escape looked at by a structural engineer but you ask the question, do you have documentation to say this is safe? no? then get some.
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by witsd »

Oh sure, I get that, but it's frustrating as it's ultimately wasting everyone's time.

The guidance needs to be far clearer, but of course they won't do that as then they would be the fall guys.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

Post by stephen1974 »

Thats the catch isn't it with all this "guidance" stuff. Its very much open to interpretation and done in a way that if something goes wrong their name isnt rubber stamped as 'you MUST do this' and they can move the goal posts around and say you got it wrong.

I've spoken with lawyers before who have said of other legislation and guidance, no one knows whats what until it gets ruled on by a judge.
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