If Facebook Groups are your thing, join ours and let's make it as amazing and friendly as our forums!

Click here for HSfB's Facebook Group Image

ISO Certification

Discuss management systems in here, including - HS(G)65; OHSAS 18001; ISO 14001; ISO 9001; ISO 20000; ISO 27001.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
ScottD
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 959
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:54 am
16
Industry Sector: Logistics & warehousing
Occupation: Health, Safety and Wellbeing Manager
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 37 times

ISO Certification

Post by ScottD »

Hi all,
We have ISO9001, ISO14001 & ISO45001 and currently use BSI as our accreditation body. Is anyone else using a different body, I am finding that BSI have not quite come up to expectations and was wondering if there were any recommendations out there.

ta,

Scott
Cunningly disguised as a responsible adult
User avatar
Blackstone
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:17 am
11
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/GlenDoc
Industry Sector: Refrigeration / Oil & Gas / Pharma
Occupation: EHS Advisor
Location: Kent
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 125 times

Re: ISO Certification

Post by Blackstone »

Have used SGS at one company previously, not hugely impressed.

Have used LR (Previously LRQA) at 3 companies and found them good at all 3 and across all standards.

Regards
Glen
'Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough that they don't want to!' - Richard Branson
User avatar
ScottD
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 959
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:54 am
16
Industry Sector: Logistics & warehousing
Occupation: Health, Safety and Wellbeing Manager
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: ISO Certification

Post by ScottD »

Thanks Glen,
Our current provider is not meeting our expectations and we are looking at replacing them.

regards,

Scott
Cunningly disguised as a responsible adult
User avatar
chrisbramall
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 pm
15
Industry Sector: Water Utility Construction
Occupation: Managing Director
Location: Barnsley, UK
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: ISO Certification

Post by chrisbramall »

Out of interest, did you change certification body. and what was wrong with BSI.
Chris Bramall MCIOB MIIRSM
User avatar
ScottD
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 959
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:54 am
16
Industry Sector: Logistics & warehousing
Occupation: Health, Safety and Wellbeing Manager
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: ISO Certification

Post by ScottD »

Morning Chris,

We have just had an audit completed (ISO9001 & (ISO45001) and looking at the report our senior management team are confused as to some items brought up as either OFI or comments. One, why were these points not raised in previous audits as it has been a long term shortfall in the system and two, after a 3 day audit there were only 2 minor NC's and 2 OFI's and I know for a fact that the system I am changing is far from complete and there are shortfalls.
Some of the comments on the report have riled the team and they feel that they should have been more thorough in their auditing.

We are still considering moving.
Cunningly disguised as a responsible adult
User avatar
chrisbramall
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 pm
15
Industry Sector: Water Utility Construction
Occupation: Managing Director
Location: Barnsley, UK
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: ISO Certification

Post by chrisbramall »

we are with BSI for ISO9001, ISO14001 and ISO45001.
we have 5 audit days, spread over 3 days with 2 auditors. a common lead auditor and then a different specialist each year. this allows a knowledge of us and our system without loosing the impartiality and the different specialist will spot different things each year.

i'm assuming you have a 3 day audit with 1 auditor covering both standards or do you have a separate audits for each standard ? If separate there will be a lot of time wasted going over the same information, if so you can ask for a combined audit.

Is it always the same auditor or different each year. If the same you can always ask for an alternative auditor, if its different then it is highly likely they will spot different things each year.

fundamentally the audit will only spot check, based on what is observed in the audit, against the criteria so there will be things which they don't spot. If you know that there are things wrong and only got 2 minor NC's then best to look at it as a chance to sort for next year. if things have not been correct previously then they were either lucky in previous years or managed to gloss over the problems by the responses to the auditor.

the number of days allowed for the audit is based on a risk calculator, if you think that they should be going into more depth you can always ask to be re-evaluated and see if the number of days increase and hence the depth of the audit.

Due to the way we now operate our Management System, its quite easy for the auditors to verify the standard information which then does give greater time and scope to dig deeper each year, and the auditor includes document references and versions in the report so that it highlights documentation changes between audits, especially useful if you have different auditors each time. However I know that under our old Management system which had totally separate audits (with two different certification bodies), the depth of the audit was not as deep as a lot of time was taken on the standard items, and finding the evidence.

one tip i've learned through the audits, is always to have the previous audit report open, as under the new standards aligned with Annex SL the information is always asked for in the same order and allows you to get to the standard information quicker, which then gives more time for the operational areas which need more focus.
Chris Bramall MCIOB MIIRSM
User avatar
Blackstone
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1262
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:17 am
11
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/GlenDoc
Industry Sector: Refrigeration / Oil & Gas / Pharma
Occupation: EHS Advisor
Location: Kent
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 125 times

Re: ISO Certification

Post by Blackstone »

I have sometimes used the ISO audits to intentionally raise issues or lead the auditor in a certain direction to highlight things that that are not otherwise being fixed internally.
Often the focus given by a Minor NC is enough for the responsible manager/director in the company to fix issues that otherwise are being neglected Or brushed under the carpet.
'Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough that they don't want to!' - Richard Branson
User avatar
chrisbramall
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:48 pm
15
Industry Sector: Water Utility Construction
Occupation: Managing Director
Location: Barnsley, UK
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: ISO Certification

Post by chrisbramall »

got to admit, i've done the same on occasions....
Chris Bramall MCIOB MIIRSM
Post Reply

 

HSfB Facebook Group Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy