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Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

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Messy
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Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Messy »

After 39 years working in fire safety, is it too late for me to get a qualification?

I learned my trade mainly from within a fire service position (with some significant self-study). I have numerous internal fire service qualifications, but hold no formal qualification recognisable in the real world. This leaves me feeling a little vulnerable, as my age would be a big enough obstacle in gaining employment, let alone trying to blag a job virtually ‘qualificationless’.

I have a fantastic job in a unique fire safety environment with reasonable job security. My employers bravely appointed me based on my experience in operational fire-fighting, fire safety, fire investigation and fire incident command. The role is 90% fire safety, 9% crisis management and 1% investigation. One of the interview panel was an ex senior fire officer whose past undoubtedly helped him interpret what I could offer. Even though my job is as secure as it could be, would I get a job now without somebody like him with his insight on the panel?

My CV is very strong in all areas except qualifications. I have looked at the NEBOSH National Certificate, but the sheer scale of the H&S element is daunting even before I get the fire safety parts. My employers will pay for the course, but will not be able to permit me to use my workplace for the third stage – workplace assessment for technical reasons, which may be an issue

But more importantly I am so anxious about going down the qualification route at my stage of life as I haven’t properly studied for years. I do believe I have an analytical mind, but do not possess what could be described as an academic brain.

> Would I be able to remember all the detailed lists of information?
> Would my experience get in the way in that I might bring previous experiences to the exam hall rather than sticking to the bibliography?
> What would my employer think if I failed to pass any of the sections? It puts them in an awkward position, as I need to be competent to hold my post. Although I would still be competent as defined by fire safety legislation, any failure must surely discredit my employer's confidence in my abilities. As a result, I could find my attempts at gaining a qualification undermining my job security!

The bottom line is:
1) Do I risk the next 8 years until I retire without any qualifications so perhaps difficult to employ?
Or
2) Do I sit with a bunch of bright young things in a struggle (and it would be) to study and pass this onerous certificate, with the risk of failing and causing difficulties for me to stay in post?

I am not sure what I want from this post, but I would appreciate any views you may have whether you have experienced my situation or not as I would appreciate a 3rd party view

Thanks
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Mat »

If it were me, I would totally go for it.

I got 'sent' on the general cert at the request of one of our previous clients (a health and safety 'manager' needs a formal qual - 20 years of experience just wouldn't cut it).

Going back to school for a pair of weeks was a little tough (although I did book myself on a course at the Gatwick Hilton, so the nosh and surroundings were good).

I did the course, simply to get the equal.

I passed. It was only after I passed and the pressure was off, that I started to really consider how much I had learnt, and how differently I was considering things.

I decided to continue the learning, and considered either an NVQ or the National Diploma.

I went for the dip. Simply because it meant I could learn more stuff and really push myself.

I also REALLY hate exams, so it was good for the masochist in me.

My point therefore is this: if you are going to do the equal, do it because you want to do it for the sake of it, not because you want a little bit of paper. There is so much learnt and discovered over a working life, but there is so much more out there ready to be discovered if you climb out of your niche, and have a scout about at what the other fellows are up to.

Make sure that you employer is also aware that for you, studying is simply a form of CPD or a way to broaden the horizons, with a certificate chucked in at the end.

Don't worry about the bright young things on the course. That have a different set of problems to you (such as knowing everything about nothing). There will be plenty of talk to go round during the training, but a surprising number seem to go quiet at results time.
The H+S 'law' bit is a little dry, and there is a lot to learn, but just use old school 'learning by rote' techniques - it worked for me.

You will need quite a bit of evening (or in my case, very early morning) study time put aside - but that is just a case of a bitter of planning.

Finally, if you do go for it, you will find a bit of support amoungst these pages.

Best of luck...
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Mat »

Sorry about the rambling post ...... Not enough coffee yet!
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by wendolene26 »

I'd say go for it Messy. You are never to old to learn (no disrespect intended) and if it's something you want to do rather than someone making you do it, you will do better at it than you think. With your years of industry experience, I expect you may be pleasantly surprised as how (reasonably) straightforward the qualification may be. That's not to say it is not worth it's salt, just that you will have picked up more information along the way than perhaps you realise.

Good luck ../. ./thumbsup..
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Alexis »

Hi Messy. Are you only 39?? ;)

Seriously......I think it's safe to claim I know you, so with this in mind, here are my thoughts:
Messy wrote:After 39 years working in fire safety, is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Definitely not on the basis that you are telling the truth about your age. :lol: Sorry.

I learned my trade mainly from within a fire service position (with some significant self-study). I have numerous internal fire service qualifications, but hold no formal qualification recognisable in the real world. This leaves me feeling a little vulnerable, as my age would be a big enough obstacle in gaining employment, let alone trying to blag a job virtually ‘qualificationless’.

I understand your qualificationless concerns as nowadays they all look for qualifications along with experience.

One of the interview panel was an ex senior fire officer whose past undoubtedly helped him interpret what I could offer. Even though my job is as secure as it could be, would I get a job now without somebody like him with his insight on the panel?

My personal thoughts are, it may be difficult Messy, but you do have experience, so yes I actually DO think you could be taken on again.

My CV is very strong in all areas except qualifications. I have looked at the NEBOSH National Certificate, but the sheer scale of the H&S element is daunting even before I get the fire safety parts. My employers will pay for the course, but will not be able to permit me to use my workplace for the third stage – workplace assessment for technical reasons, which may be an issue

Why aren't you looking at doing the NEBOSH Fire Certificate?? .scratch You could skoosh that one, but.........just to give you another wee thought, why not look at doing the Fire Diploma via someone like NCRQ? This way, you won't have the exam sittings, but will still have the Qualifications AND you can put that all important experience into practice with the course material thinkings. Worthwhile 'phoning them to ask a bit about it. I would also chat to our Paul. ;)

But more importantly I am so anxious about going down the qualification route at my stage of life as I haven’t properly studied for years. I do believe I have an analytical mind, but do not possess what could be described as an academic brain.

As above.


> Would I be able to remember all the detailed lists of information?
At your age, can you remember to change your socks? :lol: Your interest would ensure what you need to remember Messy. ./thumbsup..

> Would my experience get in the way in that I might bring previous experiences to the exam hall rather than sticking to the bibliography?
Could do, but maybe not! :|

> What would my employer think if I failed to pass any of the sections? It puts them in an awkward position, as I need to be competent to hold my post. Although I would still be competent as defined by fire safety legislation, any failure must surely discredit my employer's confidence in my abilities. As a result, I could find my attempts at gaining a qualification undermining my job security!
Surely not! Maybe your worrying too much. ;) Anyway, there are resits. :)


The bottom line is:
1) Do I risk the next 8 years until I retire without any qualifications so perhaps difficult to employ?

No risk when you are passionate about something. I do think you will find it enjoyable and there is always HSfB and our amazing members to prop you up when you feel a bit sluggish. ;)
Or
2) Do I sit with a bunch of bright young things in a struggle (and it would be) to study and pass this onerous certificate, with the risk of failing and causing difficulties for me to stay in post?

No need to sit with any young/old things if you don't want to. Distance Learning etc and as mentioned before, NCRQ or NVQ.

I am not sure what I want from this post, but I would appreciate any views you may have whether you have experienced my situation or not as I would appreciate a 3rd party view

Thanks
It is understandable to be confused. Anything neboshy seems confusing, but the beast can be beat. :lol: You can do it, I know!! .salut

Hope this helps a bit Messy. .salut

p.s. Have you forgotten what age I was when I went back to "school"? ;)
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Messy »

Thank you for taking the time to reply and encouraging me to blowing the cobwebs from my grey matter and towards studying. Alexis, I love your sense of humour :lol: . I am indeed 24 years old in my mind, sadly though my body tells a different story!!!!

The whole subject of what course is difficult enough for fire safety, but when you consider H&S its a maze. Some are accredited to this and others are the equivalent that - my brain hurts! [smilie=dweeba20.gif] So I am obliged at the suggestions provided.

I am drawn to the NCRQ methodology of studying, but was initially disappointed that the Certificate in Applied Health and Safety - as the name suggests -relates to H&S and not fire safety. However, upon reflection perhaps studying H&S management - a subject which overlaps fire safety management in many areas - it would underpin my technical/risk management knowledge and give me a new subject area to discover (H&S). Studying for a fire safety qualification would result in some duplication of learning in areas that I am already conversant with - eg fire detection systems & the fire safety order etc

I need to sit down and consider this idea further - especially with Mrs Messy who is hovering behind me as I type as she wants to go somewhere. I will need both her - and hopefully my employer - to give me some space to study. Without their support its a non starter

https://www.ncrq.org.uk/cert-health-safety.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again!!! clapclap
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by bernicarey »

Without going to the great depth of analysis that Alexis has ;) here's my two'peneth...

I understand how you can feel its a difficult position.

The world these days required qualifications and memberships to get on and sometimes they can be a bit Chicken and Egg in their requirements. You might be settled where you are until retirement, or you might not.

Personally, I'd go for something, whether stick with Fire or go General H&S is another question. I'd be tempted to stick with the Fire World, unless you feel the need to branch out. Depends on how much of a challenge you want.

If there is funding available, go for it and look on it as CPD. Qualifications are important, along with experience.

There are some right cowboys out there and if you find yourself in the job market you might not be so lucky next time as to have an interviewer who understands where you're coming from. You need to tick certain boxes to get a new job.

With funding being available, I'd say you'd be daft not to! .salut
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Jack Kane »

First, I take my hat off to you for 39 years of a career in the same field! That's incredible and probably unthinkable to those bright young things out there (like me! :lol: ).
Messy wrote:The bottom line is:
1) Do I risk the next 8 years until I retire without any qualifications so perhaps difficult to employ?
Or
2) Do I sit with a bunch of bright young things in a struggle (and it would be) to study and pass this onerous certificate, with the risk of failing and causing difficulties for me to stay in post?
1) Do you risk the next 8 years having 39+ years experience in your pocket regardless of qualifications? I see zero risk there. I don't know about others, but if I were employing somebody, 39+ years is hard to ignore and I'd be crazy not to take an interest because there's not a bit of paper.

With all the job losses in the oil and gas industry right now, it looks like we are starting to see the end of times where people have decades of experience in one field. I've seen so many people with 2 years experience, 39 years experience etc, losing their jobs, it's indiscriminate by the looks of things. My point is, I think some employers don't look that far ahead any more. 8 years is quite a long time for a company and for people to stay in one job these days. You would be an ideal candidate for a 5 year plan as you are highly likely to stay put!

Difficult to employ? Nah, it only takes one employer to say yes!

2) Do you challenge yourself and add another awesome achievement to your working career? Aye!

Do you sit with a bunch of bright young things in a classroom where people help each other pass these courses, where people chat and learn from each other, where people need real life examples to help put things into context, where people would be in awe of a human being working 39 years in the same field? AYE!

The risk of passing is well worth it. [smilie=smiley-faces57.gif]
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Nige691 »

39 should be no problem especialy if you are already in the trade, i have just past NEBOSH gen cert and about to start fire and risk at 55 and not in the trade- go for it
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Re: Is it too late for me to get a qualification?

Post by Alexis »

Nige691 wrote:39 should be no problem especialy if you are already in the trade, i have just past NEBOSH gen cert and about to start fire and risk at 55 and not in the trade- go for it
congrats and [welcomesign] Nige. :wave:

Well done on your new qualification and good luck with the next lot. clapclap

Good to have you aboard. :D
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