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Advice on external stairway being removed...

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Paul1979
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Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by Paul1979 »

Please can we ask for some steer on a subject relating to a block of flats we manage - we don't expect anyone to comment on the FRA's judgement, just whether or not you think Building Control should be involved in the final decision...

Sorry if there is too much info here, but the situation we have is...

19 privately owned and occupied flats in a building which is ground floor + 7 upper floors and 1 basement.  In addition, a roof space room houses water tanks and lift motor equipment.

Single internal stairway - protected by FD30s doors at each level.  

Simultaneous evacuation adopted in 2017 - prior, was a 'stay put'.

Communal alarm with AFD (smoke) at each floor level and Manual Call Point next to porters desk / office on ground floor.  A heat detector linked to communal fire alarm is also found just inside each flat entrance doorway (approx. 2m distance).

One side of the building has an original steel stairway which is accessible from approximately 9 of the flats.  The remaining flats have no external stairway.  The external stair still has 'FIRE EXIT' signage displayed.

The condition of the stair is poor - very rusty.  Plus, the facade along the stair is not fully protected.  Several glazed apertures are openable. 

The FRA we had completed in 2021 (February) shows that the assessor feels the external staircase is not needed as the internal stair is protected from fire and smoke for 30-mins.  Plus early warning of fire has been introduced since original construction. 

Landlord is obviously delighted as he thinks he can get rid of the external stairway and save a fortune in having it repaired (possibly even replaced).

Should we / the landlord advise local building authorities of the suggestion of removing the external stairway before we jump in 2 footed and do anything??   .scratch .scratch

Any steer / guidance always appreciated!
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Paul1979
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Re: Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by Paul1979 »

Sorry - I should of added...this is believed to be built 1930's and is in London (possible that London Building Acts / LCC Legislation applied).

Look forward to receiving your thoughts on this.
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Re: Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by Messy »

Its an odd one with- as I picture it - only half of the flats having access to the stairs - is that right?

I am as rusty as that staircase on the LBA, but I assume that is why the staircase is in place?

I would definitely run it through the local BC department just as a belt and braces approach. Treat it as a peer review of the FRA, a second opinion
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Re: Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by witsd »

I was assuming that all the flats have access to the internal stairway, but the external one was an 'extra' for 9 of them?

If so, I think I agree with the FRA, but I know basically naff-all about Building Control, so can't really help. :(
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Paul1979
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Re: Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by Paul1979 »

Messy wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:53 pm I would definitely run it through the local BC department just as a belt and braces approach. Treat it as a peer review of the FRA, a second opinion
Hi Messy, we spoke to BC this morning - they are all over it! It transpires that the external stair was added to the building circa 1960's when some adaptations to the building were made (not entirely sure what) so they want to inspect before the landlord does anything. Thank you for your thoughts. .salut
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Paul1979
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Re: Advice on external stairway being removed...

Post by Paul1979 »

witsd wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:27 am I was assuming that all the flats have access to the internal stairway, but the external one was an 'extra' for 9 of them?
Yes, absolutely spot on. Only 9 of the flats have access to the external stairway. But, following chat with BC today, it appears to have been retrospectively added circa 1960 as a result of some changes to the building - not 100% sure what those changes were, but hopefully we will find out more when the jolly BC Officer visits! :D
"If life were predictable it would cease to be life and be without flavor." ../.
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