Fire Alarm and calling 999

[Paul1979]

We manage an office block of 6 floors - some of the floor levels are unoccupied for long periods due to COVID. Building strategy is full / simultaneous evacuation (approx. 300 people).

At present, the fire alarm is a single knock system - would it be acceptable (subject to risk assessment) to change the system, or just the system on unoccupied floors, to a double-knock style?

The main reason for the query is we are worried that faulty detectors in unoccupied levels may result in the whole building evacuating unnecessarily. The idea we have is that if a double knock system is introduced, if the alarm panel shows a detection in unoccupied areas, the site security / reception can investigate, and then after 5-6 mins, the alarm goes into full evacuation mode if not switched off?

Also, if the system remains as a 'single knock' and the fire alarm activates as a result of a single detector in the unoccupied areas, but no signs of fire / smoke, should we still ring 999 or should we investigate first?? My particular worry is that the rest of the building will be evacuating down using the stairs, and yet if the security / reception are told to investigate, they will be going up the stairs, in the opposite direction of flow! Also, will the FRS attend if it is not a confirmed fire with a single knock system??

Are there any particular rules / guidance on whether a single knock or double knock system is needed please?

Sorry if these are silly / overthought questions.

[Andyblue]

Are you being hopeful that security will be able to attend and make a suitable assessment with the 5-6 mins you mention. Even if they are just putting coats on or other minor tasks, is that time realistic. And that’s before looking at your other options!

[Messy]

There are many technical and procedural options available to ensure unwanted fire signals are kept to a minimum.

But do you need to adopt them? Has there been a history of false activations? and if so, have they increased since covid? I find alarms are more likely to set off when a premises (or part of) is occupied to be honest.

If you do go down the staff search route, you might need to change fire detection hardware and will definitely have to alter the cause and effect. That will cost a few quid and I wonder if that would bet better spent on additional servicing over and above the BS recommendations, or extending any hot work permit system to include dusty work

A delay to allow a staff search is allowed under BS5839 and a recommended time delay is 6 mins - although you can have longer if it can be justified. 18 mins is the longest I have known in a very large place of assembly (aimed to prevent many thousands evacuating for no good reason).

The secret is to have a silent alert so only staff who need to search are alerted. A two stage alert can work with an intermittent alarm for standby and continuous for evacuate. But for an office with 50 persons per floor, is it worth it? On top of the infrastructure costs, there's staff training - esp for the security staff

Have a look here for some ideas, but honestly? - Check the figures and see if this a real issue or just an anxiety. If the false alarm figures are high, check the detection system. Are they the right type of heads in the right places? What processes are happening under them? etc

https://www.fia.uk.com/static/uploaded/ ... 61b77d.pdf

As for calling 999? definitely not for an office block. With a security team on board, you should be able to adopt a system to check the activation without calling the fire service. The alarm system is to alert the occupier to a fire and start an evacuation. Statistics show most are false alarms. In any case, most fire services will not attend fire alarm activations unless they have been checked

Different rules apply for high risk sleeping accommodation or residential care and hospitals etc

[Paul1979]

Thank you Messy and Andyblue for taking the time to reply - very much appreciated.

[Paul1979]

As for calling 999? definitely not for an office block. With a security team on board, you should be able to adopt a system to check the activation without calling the fire service. The alarm system is to alert the occupier to a fire and start an evacuation. Statistics show most are false alarms. In any case, most fire services will not attend fire alarm activations unless they have been checked

Quick question Messy - the building in question is manned with reception/security during core hours (8am-8pm) but tenants staff have access and do use the building 24/7 due to some of them dealing with overseas clients.

If the alarm activates whilst the building is occupied by one or more of these staff, and there is no reception/security, and there is no signs of fire, should the tenants staff be advised the call 999? Just another scenario I thought of! I am sure this kind of arrangement happens in all parts of the country, especially in London but I've not come across it here before...normally, the buildings we manage are closed completely at set-times.

[witsd]

That would be down to the tenant's FRA, surely?

(Which they ought to have shared with the landlord)

[Paul1979]

That would be down to the tenant's FRA, surely?

(Which they ought to have shared with the landlord)

Yes, the tenants are responsible for their own FRA's and they are collected each year. This shows the Landlord being responsible for the communal parts.

But what if the fire panel is showing the activation has been caused on one of the unoccupied levels? The tenants are responsible for their own respective tenanted areas, but not the communal and unoccupied parts, which falls under our landlords. Also, this is a multi-tenure building so there are 7 different businesses within.

[Messy]

Most fire alarm systems are installed as Cat L (life safety) systems. The aim being raising the alarm and alerting people to take appraise action.

So in the scenario you refer to, an unoccupied floor or demise, the alarm operates and people evacuate. The fire alarm has done its job.

If it is a fire or suspected fire, of course dial 999 - no argument. But its NOT the fire service's role to check whether there is a fire and to silence/reset the system - especially in an office building. This is the task of those who manage the premises

Unless there are signs of a fire, the fire service will usually standby and request a key holder. This is a task other tenants could do without taking critical fire service resources away from the community it serves.

The landlord is best placed to develop a management system to deal with this eventuality. Maybe a procedure that involves supplying a key holder to silence and reset the alarm. Or perhaps issue and maintain a key holder list which is shared with all 7 occupiers

The Fire Safety Order requires

Article 9: "The responsible person must make a suitable and sufficient assessment of the risks to which relevant persons are exposed

Article 2 provides a definition: “relevant persons” means—
(a)any person (including the responsible person) who is or may be lawfully on the premises; and
(b)any person in the immediate vicinity of the premises who is at risk from a fire on the premises,

So one could argue, for a FRA to be suitable & sufficient - all 8 FRAs for this premises (the 7 occupiers and the landlord) should have an emergency plan that addresses the risk to other relevant persons during a fire or suspected fire

[witsd]

What would happen in the event that the fire alarm sounded at 2am and noone else was present? Would anyone get a phone call to come and deal with it?

[Paul1979]

What would happen in the event that the fire alarm sounded at 2am and noone else was present? Would anyone get a phone call to come and deal with it?

The alarm has a monitoring centre - they would call one of the key holders who would then have to get out of bed to attend / confirm if fire actually happening.

[witsd]

So your scenario is already covered.

Tenant sees fire, raises alarm, leaves building, calls FRS.

Or

Alarm is activated, tenant leaves building, calls FRS.

Either way, ARC contacts keyholder who hops into car and is on site shortly after FRS to liaise if necessary and reset alarms / raise repairs / whatever else.

[Paul1979]

So...if fire alarm is triggered on one of the unoccupied floors, and there is no sign of smoke/fire, would it typically be expected (if they are on site) for the receptionist / security to go and investigate??

Worry is that by asking them to go up to the floor where fire has been detected, they may compromise their own safety just investigating?

Sorry - we are probably over complicating something which is very simple to you guys, but just want to get things right / safe.