Hi,
Looking for some advice from anyone with experience of Flats of Multiple Occupancy please!
Old building (circa 1700's) has been fully converted (post 1991) to include 4 self-contained flats. Each flat has 4 bedrooms, plus a shared living area and kitchen. Individuals are non-related so treated as 'bed-sit' environment. Building Control signed off, etc.
1 x flat on ground floor, 2 x flats on first floor, entrance to 4th flat is via doorway on first floor which leads up to second floor level.
Single central stairway is protected with FD30s doors entering on to communal stair.
Question raised is, do the doors to bedrooms and kitchen along the escape routes within the flats need to be fire/smoke resistant, if the travel distances from the furthest part of each flat, to the central protected stairway is within parameters of HM/DCLG Guidance for sleeping risks?
Table 3 of the HM/DCLG guide seem to show travel distances of 9m within bedroom (which is fine as we have less than 5m) and 18m to place of safety (in this case, travel distances from furthest part of any flat to the flat entrance door/stairway was 12m).
LACORS (case studies D13 & D14) suggest that there is no requirement for fire doors within flat, but sound, well constructed and close-fitting
conventional doors are required.
The doors to the bedrooms have no labels / certificates to evidence they are fire rated, but do have fire and smoke seals, and self-closing mechanisms. But hinges aren't fire rated, and we are not sure if the self closer is fire rated either. Handles are definitely not fire rated (domestic styles).
Other factors include suitable alarm systems in all flats, bedrooms and common parts. The doors entering the stairway are in poor condition and need replacing, but due to obvious cost factors, the client needs to know if they need to replace the bedroom and kitchen doors too?
FRA not much help - just said fire doors designed to protect means of escape are inadequate, but with no plan drawings / fire strategy, we as the building managers are left a little in the dark as to exactly what doors need replacing.
As always, any help / guidance always appreciated.
Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
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- Paul1979
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Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
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- witsd
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
Have you got the option to chase the fire risk assessor for further elaboration?
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
- Paul1979
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
Unfortunately not - the client decided to change risk assessors in mid-2020 and they took news rather badly so will not return calls / emails / help...
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
Sorry witsd - I should've mentioned, ideally, in view of lack of FRA commentary, we are looking for some sort of guidance whether it be ADB / BS9991 / HM/DCLG / LACoRS which shows us in black and white whether or not the doors need to be fire & smoke resistant...
Thank you as always for taking the time to read / reply to my queries on here - truly appreciated.
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- witsd
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
My take on the situation would be that the guidance* does imply that doors along an escape route should be rated fire doors, so that would include all the bedrooms. In order to determine that this wasn't necessary in this case for whatever reason, you are going to need an FRA that says so. As always, guidance is nice but the FRA determines which of the guidance is actually relevant.
*Not certain which guidance, though I've seen people referring to LACORS - HMOs are not my normal area.
*Not certain which guidance, though I've seen people referring to LACORS - HMOs are not my normal area.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
- Paul1979
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
Hi witsd - thank you...in the end, we paid for another FRA to be done last week, and they confirmed that the bedroom doors need to be FD30s with self-closer. They basically said, all doors other than toilets, bathrooms, shower rooms needed to be fire doors.
We feel much safer now knowing what needs to be done - the previous FRA just left things open to interpretation slightly...and as soon as the quotes came in for the new fire doors, that interpretation become scrutinised and examined by the client!!!!
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to my questions on here.
We feel much safer now knowing what needs to be done - the previous FRA just left things open to interpretation slightly...and as soon as the quotes came in for the new fire doors, that interpretation become scrutinised and examined by the client!!!!
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to my questions on here.
"If life were predictable it would cease to be life and be without flavor."
- witsd
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Re: Flats in Multiple Occupancy - Fire Doors
There's nothing wrong with an FRA saying things like 'X is an issue. Solutions include A, B or C, this is up to the client' but leaving things totally up to interpretation and then refusing to help further is incredibly unprofessional.
Glad you got it sorted, shame it came to having to get a second FRA.
Glad you got it sorted, shame it came to having to get a second FRA.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'