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Fire Strategy

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Paul1979
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Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

We look after a decent size book of properties across England (approx. 200) and a question has been raised with regards to Fire Strategies...

I have been trawling through the FRA's for each of the properties we manage which has taken me about a week and there is no mention of Fire Strategies being mentioned...

But, a few have highlighted the need for compartmentation and fire door surveys, especially in high risk [sleeping / care homes / hotels].

The question regarding the requirement for fire strategies has come about due to the compartmentation and fire door surveyors all stating that they need the fire strategy document which shows the compartmentation lines / fire doors before they can assess. Now this makes perfect sense to me, but none of the premises have a fire strategy document or suite of documents which resembles any form of fire strategy??

As is typical, several buildings are 1800's and have been butchered/redeveloped to make them look pretty for the purpose of their new/current use - this has involved a number of Building Control Authorities / Officers being part of the works. In addition, several properties are brand new (built in last 4-5 years) where BCO's would have been no doubt involved in sign off before handing over to our clients.

But, again, within the handover packs, there's no mention of fire strategies / compartmentation drawings, or fire-stopping works performed.

So the questions are;

1) would the fact that there is no fire strategies in place not typically be part of the FRA process? I am guessing the answer is 'no' as circa 200 FRA's I have looked at do not mention the need / recommendation to have a fire strategy drawn up?

2) Having looked at the Fire Safety Order 2005, something that jumps out at me is Article 11 - whilst it does not specifically state the words 'Fire Strategy' surely this is the part where a strategy is needed on ALL buildings?? If so, why would this not be mentioned in the FRA?

3) from the little knowledge I have, looking at Building Regs, Article 38 requires a fire strategy to be produced by architects / main contractors and handed over to the end user upon satisfactory completion of works? So if this is the case, why would the BCO's not pick up on this? Once the property is handed over, we assume that BCO no longer has any come back and it is down for the client to arrange for a strategy to be produced (which would be second guessing what the architects strategy was in the first place?!)

If there are any experienced risk assessors out there, from a Fire Risk Assessors perspective, what would you expect to see in terms of a fire strategy when visiting clients? I am guessing it is horses for courses and simplistic premises / occupancies would probably need no more than a basic drawing / file with alarm / emergency lighting / elec / gas certificates? But what should be included in the strategy document?

We just want to know what should be expected of the clients in terms of producing a fire strategy - and we are really intrigued why the FRA's don't mention this too... .salut

As always, your experience / time / thoughts are hugely appreciated...
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by witsd »

When I carry out an FRA, I would be wanting to see some kind of recorded data, covering:

1) A detailed description of what is in the premises (trained staff, automatic fire detection, solar panels, mobile phone masts etc.)
2) A detailed description of what is done to mitigate fire (records of maintenance, descriptions of in-house checks etc.)
3) A detailed description of what would be done in the event of fire (assembly point(s), warden / staff duties, shut-down procedures etc.)

The above could be site-specific, or semi-generic, providing that all parts are transferable from site to site (more likely the case in residential with no evacuation process to speak of).

I couldn't care less what it is called, what format it's in or over how many documents it is spread, providing it has the necessary data.

Does that answer the question?
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

Hmmm...not really...sorry!

What about the strategy being provided by contractors / architects at handover? (Article 38 side of things)...appreciate not always the case especially in case of older buildings.

Would the compartmentation / fire stopping plans be expected to be found within your recorded data as part of the FRA or is this over and above what the FRA covers?

What we have seen is common is that especially during new builds / redevelopments, contractors buy a load of fire doors in and install them with the blue badges fitted so the client thinks every single door needs to be a fire door...when in reality, the contractors dont know if they have to be fire doors or not...they just get told to put them in. Great example is a childrens nursery where partition walls (purely for privacy) stop approximately 1m below ceiling level...but contractors have put FD30s doors on each!

Who is responsible for producing the compartmentation drawings if the main contractor / architect hasn't supplied these? I am guessing the client (at their own expense) would have to bring an engineer in to work the lines out?

My questions are slightly biased towards the compartmentation / fire door side of things as they are the ones who have asked for the strategy / drawings...but I guess this query can apply to all manner of fire safety systems include alarms so the end user knows exactly what they have and need to maintain...

Thank you witsd as always for taking time to reply...much appreciated.
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by witsd »

Honestly, what I would expect to find would depend upon the age of the building. Anything over 5 years of age probably isn't going to have it all neatly filed, and frankly, I'm not going to have the time to go through it all carefully even if it is.

Besides, even if a brand new building, I'd put more stock in what I can actually see with my eyes than what is written on a piece of paper when it comes to compartmentation. Okay, great, the architects intended 60 minute compartmentation, and the builders have said that they did it... so why can I see newspaper sticking out of that hole? :D

If my inspection left me with questions and there was limited data available then I would probably advise the client to 'satisfy themselves that everything was fine through reassurances from the builders, or bring in a competent engineer to confirm' or some such wordy nonsense.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

Thank you witsd - that's great advice - I was wondering why the FRA's we had received had not specifically mentioned the Strategy Document, but now reading your comments, I can see why...thank you as always for taking the time to explain things.
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Messy »

For me the size, age and most importantly evacuation methodology determines the recording of the fire strategy.

Article 11 does point towards recording an escape strategy but is a bit wishy wasy. I have a section on my FRA reports entitled 'strategy'. Its usually a bullet point list which highlights the headlines; simultaneous evacuation via 4 final exits, fire alarm and detection to BS5839-1 cat L3, 2 protected staircases, compartment floors evacuation chairs located at.... staff trained 2 yearly elearning + drills

Bigger premises will have full fire strategy documents. Our head office recently changed the fire alarm cause and effect and we had to.isolate some sprinklers in another office which altered the evac strategy to simultaneous. Both required re writes of their respective strategies

I ignore Reg 38 files as they are rarely supplies or so.imadequate or out of date

Some enforcement authorities are now delving deeper into Article 11 since Grenfell and are reluctant to flick thru the various sections of a FRA assessing if Article 11 compliance. So I provide at least the basics
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

Hi Messy, thank you again for your thoughts - always much appreciated and yours and Witsd's comments make much more sense that the FRA insisting upon a full / glossy fire strategy for the Raj of India Restaurant down the road :) ...

...whilst the name of the restaurant has been changed to protect the identity of the client, the FRA's requirement to have a full fire strategy document produced within 3 months is a true story...
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by hammer1 »

Paul1979 wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:17 am We look after a decent size book of properties across England (approx. 200) and a question has been raised with regards to Fire Strategies...

I have been trawling through the FRA's for each of the properties we manage which has taken me about a week and there is no mention of Fire Strategies being mentioned...

But, a few have highlighted the need for compartmentation and fire door surveys, especially in high risk [sleeping / care homes / hotels].

The question regarding the requirement for fire strategies has come about due to the compartmentation and fire door surveyors all stating that they need the fire strategy document which shows the compartmentation lines / fire doors before they can assess. Now this makes perfect sense to me, but none of the premises have a fire strategy document or suite of documents which resembles any form of fire strategy??

As is typical, several buildings are 1800's and have been butchered/redeveloped to make them look pretty for the purpose of their new/current use - this has involved a number of Building Control Authorities / Officers being part of the works. In addition, several properties are brand new (built in last 4-5 years) where BCO's would have been no doubt involved in sign off before handing over to our clients.

But, again, within the handover packs, there's no mention of fire strategies / compartmentation drawings, or fire-stopping works performed.

So the questions are;

1) would the fact that there is no fire strategies in place not typically be part of the FRA process? I am guessing the answer is 'no' as circa 200 FRA's I have looked at do not mention the need / recommendation to have a fire strategy drawn up?

2) Having looked at the Fire Safety Order 2005, something that jumps out at me is Article 11 - whilst it does not specifically state the words 'Fire Strategy' surely this is the part where a strategy is needed on ALL buildings?? If so, why would this not be mentioned in the FRA?

3) from the little knowledge I have, looking at Building Regs, Article 38 requires a fire strategy to be produced by architects / main contractors and handed over to the end user upon satisfactory completion of works? So if this is the case, why would the BCO's not pick up on this? Once the property is handed over, we assume that BCO no longer has any come back and it is down for the client to arrange for a strategy to be produced (which would be second guessing what the architects strategy was in the first place?!)

If there are any experienced risk assessors out there, from a Fire Risk Assessors perspective, what would you expect to see in terms of a fire strategy when visiting clients? I am guessing it is horses for courses and simplistic premises / occupancies would probably need no more than a basic drawing / file with alarm / emergency lighting / elec / gas certificates? But what should be included in the strategy document?

We just want to know what should be expected of the clients in terms of producing a fire strategy - and we are really intrigued why the FRA's don't mention this too... .salut

As always, your experience / time / thoughts are hugely appreciated...
I feel the FRA, if comprehensive enough can form part of a building fire strategy. As stated, there only recently been a requirement for fire strategies, and even now its hit and miss in regards to level of detail, Regulation 38 is now finally being addressed but still in it early stages of being established.

I would only request a retrospective fire strategy if the building is very complex, say a 1970s shopping centre for example. A fire strategy could be as simple as a fire action notice, it all depends on the complexity, as mentioned Article 11 is the key, how do you carry out your fire safety arrangements? In some rare occasions, a retrospective fire strategy could form part of this.

Below is a brief summary on fire strategies.


Fire Strategy – What is it and how should it be used?

A fire strategy demonstrates the ways in which the building design meets the requirements of the relevant legislation and standards at the time of construction and provides a defined philosophy around which the fire safety and fire protection measures can be further defined. It contains key information on the specification of fire safety systems, and the management organisation for controlling fire safety.

Buildings constructed between 1971 until 2005

The building design would have been reviewed by Building Control in consultation with the Fire Authority for compliance with the Building Regulations at the time of the build. Once approved, the construction of the building would have been signed off by Building Control. Once occupied, the Fire Authority would have issued a fire certificate, containing drawings, requirements and prescriptive measures for fire precautions. This would have formed the Strategy and would have included the plan, scheme, policy, approach and tactic.

The Fire Certificate would have included information on the following, where applicable:

• Means of escape
• Escape lighting
• Fire fighting equipment
• Alarm systems
• Maintenance of fire alarm and life safety systems
• Fire instructions, training, evacuation plans
• Building plans indicating the requirements

Any changes made to the building were to be notified to the Fire Authority for approval and changes were made to the fire certificate.

Buildings constructed after 2005

The design team would have engaged the services of a Fire Engineer to formulate the Fire Strategy using engineered systems and solutions to meet compliance and approval by Building Control and the Fire Authority where the building may not be strictly in compliance with Building Regulations but meets an approved standard or better.
On completion, a fire risk assessment would be conducted which may review the strategy. The fire risk assessment must be reviewed regularly, and if changes take place to the building (risk) the Responsible Person must conduct a new assessment.


How can we know if the existing fire strategy is still valid?

Is it possible that the conditions with regard to the building, its use and its occupancy may have changed from that used in the formulation of the fire strategy? In some cases this may render the fire strategy as being no longer valid. Examples include;

• The planned occupancy profile in terms of numbers, type and location may have changed
• Modifications have been made to the building since original construction
• The use of pat or whole of the building may have changed
• Some of the fire protection systems may have been modified in terms of design
• Changes to evacuation criteria


Retrospective Fire Strategies

Where retrospective strategies take place due to the loss of the original fire certificate then a new strategy needs to be prepared to replicate the original requirements (provided no changes have occurred).
During the course of conducting a fire risk assessment the assessor may identify a perceived risk, and require the site to substantiate that the precautions in place are part of the accepted strategy. Reference would need to be made to the old fire certificate if built pre 2005, or the fire strategy document or O&M’s- post 2005.

Where the documents are not available, the fire risk assessor may request that the above documentation be provided in the form of a ‘retrospective fire strategy’.

The primary areas addressed within the strategy document are:

• Fire alarm and detection systems
• Means of escape provisions and strategy
• Fire resistance requirements to the elements of structure
• Compartmentation
• Smoke ventilation requirements
• Fire service access and facilities
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Paul1979
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

Morning Hammer - thank you so much for the information - really appreciated and amazingly helpful. :)
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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by bernicarey »

I had an email drop in today from the FPA, including a link to this article. What is a fire strategy document?
So this is their take on the term:
https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/fire-safe ... ain%20List
www.belvoirsafety.co.uk

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Re: Fire Strategy

Post by Paul1979 »

bernicarey wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:34 pm I had an email drop in today from the FPA, including a link to this article. What is a fire strategy document?
So this is their take on the term:
https://www.thefpa.co.uk/news/fire-safe ... ain%20List
Hi bernicarey - thats a great help - again, thank you so much for taking the time to help out. .salut
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