Evacuator Fire Alarm

[Paul1979]

I appreciate what you are saying about the power supply but these systems have a built in warning system for low battery levels or battery failure just as stand alone smoke detectors do.

Another good point...but from what I have read about the Evacuator devices [yes, my past few days have become an obsession to learn about these things!] is that similar to the old battery smoke alarms, and also the sonic door holding devices such as a Dorgard, the Evacuators make an annoying sound when the batteries run low, and the batteries can be removed fairly easily...?

I guess my worry with this argument is the 'relaxed' attitude of client too...to give you a feel, their last Fixed Wiring Inspection was carried out in 2002...so H&S is not top of their agendas on the monthly meetings...

The other contention will be cost [albeit I know it should not be in term of Fire, but commercially the tenant will claim poverty especially with current environment]. So, would the Evacuator system be a good temporary solution for say, 6-12 months whilst the tenant saved enough money for a BS5839-1 system to be installed?! Just searching for ideas from anyone that may have come across this type of situation before...

Again, thank you to everyone for your thoughts - really interesting seeing everyone's own opinions

[Messy]

I think it comes down to a simple equation:

If your clients FRA has determined bells or whistles or shouting FIRE is acceptable, the the Evacuator could be seen as a control measure which affords better protection than what has been advised from the FRA. That can only be a good thing.

However if this piece of kit has been installed in leiu of a Cat M system under 5839, with the sole aim of saving money (which appears to be the case), that is less acceptable

There could be an argument to defer installation until the client has the cash and install a temporary system, but there would have to be a sound business case to support this approach.

[witsd]

My most biggest fears are 1) being unfamiliar with the Evacuator alarm system and fact it isn't BS recognised; 2) the fact that a fire could originate in one part of the buildings and the system fail to warn others in a part of the building where the products of the fire are not possible to see/smell; 3) the fear of the cables failing due to heat; 4) people (especially those wearing head phones) not hearing the alarm or seeing the visual alarms; 5) the limitation of the Evacuator alarm system not being able to include AFD; 6) having no CIE to continually monitor for faults; 7) not convinced client will ever test the alarm!

You are right though; its the FRA and lack of mention of BS5839-1 being a suitable benchmark that's causing the client to dig his heals in...I can only give them my advice to the best of my knowledge / competency I guess.

1) Yeah, this is my biggest issue here. I usually try not to get stuck with the BS – they are great when deciding what to get, but not so useful when comparing what you already have against what you actually need. Problem here being gauging the gap between this system and a BS-compliant one.

2) This isn't really an issue for life safety. As soon as smoke reaches a point where it could affect staff, staff should be reacting to it, and activating the alarm on their way out. Yes, AFD (of whatever type) would provide an earlier alarm and could reduce the risk a small amount though.

3) This one goes back to 1). Are BS-compliant systems significantly more resistant to heat, and if so, how much additional alarm time will that provide? Is there a realistic chance of this alarm system failing due to fire before it is activated?

4) This is a training issue, and while it is a factor worth considering, there's nothing to stop you providing an 'either/or' action e.g. "The use of earphones in work areas should be banned unless the existing alarm system is upgraded to meet BS" The beacon effectiveness would depend upon the alarms' positioning and may be inadequate, but no way for us to comment.

5) Two separate alarm systems may not be ideal, but may well reduce the risk to life to a similar level to that of one integrated system for a fraction of the cost.

6) & 7) as long as the FRA is specifying that alarm tests must be completed weekly, then this is largely out of your hands but could be addressed similarly to 4) – "The testing regimen must be adhered to. Any deviation from this should be taken to indicate that a BS-compliant alarm system with automated fault identification is required at this site."

But certainly the safest and easiest (for you) method is to simply say "Given the use of earphones, machinery, lack of fire drills, lack of AFD etc., it is considered that the existing fire alarm system is not adequate and should be replaced with a system that meets the current BS".

[Paul1979]

witsd / Messy / Stephen1974 - thank you all so much for your thoughts! I am pretty sure we are going to play this safe and in view of the other issues (as witsd summarised) the safest option would be for a BS5839-1 standard to be installed with AFD in staff kitchen / offices / etc. which may be unoccupied at times. If client opts to stick with Evacuator system, then it is their choice, but at least we have tried.

Again, thank you all so much.

[Messy]

I just wanted to say how this thread represents the cliche that if you have five fire safety experts in a room, you will get six opinions

But after saying that, I just wanted to point out and thank the mature and reasonable debate that followed the OP original question. Elsewhere across social media, the slightly differing views may have resulted in a virtual bun fight of abuse

But not here

[Paul1979]

I just wanted to say how this thread represents the cliche that if you have five fire safety experts in a room, you will get six opinions

But after saying that, I just wanted to point out and thank the mature and reasonable debate that followed the OP original question. Elsewhere across social media, the slightly differing views may have resulted in a virtual bun fight of abuse

But not here

Well said!

[Alexis]

I just wanted to say how this thread represents the cliche that if you have five fire safety experts in a room, you will get six opinions

But after saying that, I just wanted to point out and thank the mature and reasonable debate that followed the OP original question. Elsewhere across social media, the slightly differing views may have resulted in a virtual bun fight of abuse

But not here

Thank you Gents for this great post that will surely help others. Take my hat off to you all.