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Huge fire at Grenfell Tower block

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mrmoe
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by mrmoe »

I can see a corporate manslaughter case coming. The negligence seen here is absurd, that is if all comments are true regarding the reports published regarding the safety of the tower, and them to go unheard for years. Also the reports regarding the cladding used!

The scenes were truly shocking and my heart goes out to all caught up in this. And also the heroes that responded and went into a fire pit to rescue anyone they could reach. True heros! clapclap

Rest In Peace.

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 »

Messy wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 pm
Most definitely one staircase at Grenfell Tower

Fitted with automatic opening vents (dedicated smoke detection opens vents)

Its not the only tall single storey block in north kensington, but perhaps the tallest

They are reasonably safe if the building is built and maintained properly
The smoke control system that was installed is below;

Looks like the link has been taken down Hammer. 404 message showing. (Alexis)

In regards to cladding it was Aluminium Composite Panelling (ACP) rain screen cladding that used on the façade

Below was a video used at a recent course I did on high rise buildings which highlights rapid external vertical fire spread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQLIlIetDM

This issue has been highlighted by many fire experts over the years and is not covered in great detail in regards to building regulations.

Sadly people get a false sense of security when they say their building has been signed off by building control, building control have no legal obligations and can miss areas. I see many buildings that pass building control needing major works to ensure compliance.

I would personally like the fire authority having a more statutory role during the phase when a building is to be signed off and have a completion certificate, I always think the 'horse has bolted' only giving fire authority legal authority after a building has been built/refurbished..this might also close the gap on regulation 38 being ignored all the time.
Last edited by Alexis on Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Many thanks Hammer.
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 »

hammer1 wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:50 pm
Messy wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 pm
Most definitely one staircase at Grenfell Tower

Fitted with automatic opening vents (dedicated smoke detection opens vents)

Its not the only tall single storey block in north kensington, but perhaps the tallest

They are reasonably safe if the building is built and maintained properly
The smoke control system that was installed is below;

Looks like the link has been taken down Hammer. 404 message showing. (Alexis)

In regards to cladding it was Aluminium Composite Panelling (ACP) rain screen cladding that used on the façade

Below was a video used at a recent course I did on high rise buildings which highlights rapid external vertical fire spread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yQLIlIetDM

This issue has been highlighted by many fire experts over the years and is not covered in great detail in regards to building regulations.

Sadly people get a false sense of security when they say their building has been signed off by building control, building control have no legal obligations and can miss areas. I see many buildings that pass building control needing major works to ensure compliance.

I would personally like the fire authority having a more statutory role during the phase when a building is to be signed off and have a completion certificate, I always think the 'horse has bolted' only giving fire authority legal authority after a building has been built/refurbished..this might also close the gap on regulation 38 being ignored all the time.
I see that page has been removed, obviously the Lawyers are on the case.
The song goes...{I'm gonna walk down to electric avenue and I'm gonna say ' have you got PAT testing records for all that mate'}

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 »

Messy wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 pm
Most definitely one staircase at Grenfell Tower

Fitted with automatic opening vents (dedicated smoke detection opens vents)

Its not the only tall single storey block in north kensington, but perhaps the tallest

They are reasonably safe if the building is built and maintained properly
Last edited by hammer1 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The song goes...{I'm gonna walk down to electric avenue and I'm gonna say ' have you got PAT testing records for all that mate'}

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 »

hammer1 wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:43 pm
Messy wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:43 pm
Most definitely one staircase at Grenfell Tower

Fitted with automatic opening vents (dedicated smoke detection opens vents)

Its not the only tall single storey block in north kensington, but perhaps the tallest

They are reasonably safe if the building is built and maintained properly
If it isn't broken why try and fix it? such a change to install such a system
The song goes...{I'm gonna walk down to electric avenue and I'm gonna say ' have you got PAT testing records for all that mate'}

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Messy »

The automatic opening vents were in place at Grenfell Tower 30 years ago. I assume they've been modernised since then, but it appears that the MOE strategy for this very high single staircase building would remain largely unchanged.

As an aside, I read in the Grenfell Residents blog that recently (perhaps as part of the £8m refurb?) gas meters were installed in the staircase/lobby areas. The residents complained they were not in cabinets and were hung at a height where young kids often banged their heads on them.

The landlords may well of considered 120 gas meters installed within a 24 storey staircase in an area of high levels of vandalism as safe - I couldn't possibly comment

By the way, the 24 storey bit is a red herring as the block stands on legs over a large undercroft which was once a council depot. So in effect, the building is equivalent to around 27 stories in height. No wonder London's Fire Brigade (with their 33m hydraulic platforms) had to borrow a 42m versions from their country cousin neighbours in leafy non-metropolis Surrey Fire & Rescue (awkward!)

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by witsd »

My mother turned 70 yesterday, so I did the dutiful son thing and phoned her up to listen to 45 minutes of whatever was on her mind. Unsurprisingly, she's been discussing the fire with her neighbours (she lives in a 1920s block (5 floors high, and much wider building than Grenfell) and they have decided that if there's a fire, they wouldn't obey a stay put policy.

Reassurance really is going to be a top priority now, or the smallest contained fires are going to cause deaths from panic.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Messy »

A member of my team received an unsolicited marketing e-mail from a H&S company this morning at 9.30. "Don't let the next disaster be your fault' (or something similarly crass - 'We can act as your fire safety consultants'

Let me remind you that Grenfell Tower was still alight, God knows how many people are missing and numerous bodies are still smouldering in the ruins

Is it just me who thinks that this approach is far too early and insensitive? - or
Am I wrong and they were right to take advantage of the interest (I'd call it fear) that is sweeping the UK and - after all, business is business??

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 »

Messy wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:45 pm
The automatic opening vents were in place at Grenfell Tower 30 years ago. I assume they've been modernised since then, but it appears that the MOE strategy for this very high single staircase building would remain largely unchanged.

As an aside, I read in the Grenfell Residents blog that recently (perhaps as part of the £8m refurb?) gas meters were installed in the staircase/lobby areas. The residents complained they were not in cabinets and were hung at a height where young kids often banged their heads on them.

The landlords may well of considered 120 gas meters installed within a 24 storey staircase in an area of high levels of vandalism as safe - I couldn't possibly comment

By the way, the 24 storey bit is a red herring as the block stands on legs over a large undercroft which was once a council depot. So in effect, the building is equivalent to around 27 stories in height. No wonder London's Fire Brigade (with their 33m hydraulic platforms) had to borrow a 42m versions from their country cousin neighbours in leafy non-metropolis Surrey Fire & Rescue (awkward!)

Oh thought they were new or something, yeah reading the removed link they must of been modernised as were quoting current BS. I have seen the an type smoke system for an old block of high rise flats in London, built in the 1960s single staircase and 23 storey. The smoke vents activated on detection, there were louvre grilles of Georgian wired glass located on either side of a refuse area (where rubbish shute was located) located to the side of a lift lobby where the flat entrances were located. It must of been the oldest smoke/detection system I have ever seen not sure if it was installed on construction but if not must of been in the 1970s or something?
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by witsd »

Messy wrote:
Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:32 pm
A member of my team received an unsolicited marketing e-mail from a H&S company this morning at 9.30. "Don't let the next disaster be your fault' (or something similarly crass - 'We can act as your fire safety consultants'

Let me remind you that Grenfell Tower was still alight, God knows how many people are missing and numerous bodies are still smouldering in the ruins

Is it just me who thinks that this approach is far too early and insensitive? - or
Am I wrong and they were right to take advantage of the interest (I'd call it fear) that is sweeping the UK and - after all, business is business??
Of course business is business and that's often crass and insensitive, but at the same time, if people are suddenly interested in making their buildings safer, can it a bad thing to help them do so?

There's a very delicate line to tread here, but it probably does need to be trodden – residents need to be put at ease, housing companies need to be seen to be taking action and if reputable companies don't offer their services, cowboys will take advantage of the demand and end up making the problem worse.

Although I'm sure some rather nasty companies are bumping their prices up (as I heard Uber (automatically) did during the London Bridge attacks).
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by bernicarey »

The thoughtless and ridiculous are already active.

Plenty of reports of fake collection schemes, in the real world and on-line.

The Daily Fail, that great derider of H&S, is on the bandwagon with all the rest of the press and on BBC Breakfast this morning Charlie Staytt was pathetic in his aggressive interviewing of Sajid Javid the Communities Secretary, about removing all cladding from tower blocks and installing sprinklers; like there's some magic wand to do it overnight, whether it's the problem or not.

Lets face it, the cladding went up far too fast, but then the stairway shouldn't have been breached, so we need to await the outcome of the investigation before the authorities jump in with both feet.

As to business, I'm just finishing off a blog for my website, not to seek direct business, but to remind people to make sure they get competent help and not some of the cowboys who are out there.
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by bernicarey »

Interesting piece in the Guardian about the Contractors, their Subbies and how the project seems to be disappearing from some corporate websites.....
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... lity-issue
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