Image

Emergency lighting

Discuss all things fire related and emergencies of all kinds.

Moderator: Moderators

Stevied10
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:14 pm
9
Industry Sector: Construction
Location: Lanarkshire

Emergency lighting

Post by Stevied10 »

Good afternoon everyone,
we recently carried out an emergency lighting review as the result of feedback from a Fire risk assessment that was carried out to our offices. It appears that our wiring for the emergency lighting has been done very shabbily. Some lights are always on, some come on when the test is carried out, some even go off when the test is carried out. As you can imagine, this is causing some confusion as we don't know what state the emergency lighting should be in when not in operation (i.e during an evacuation.) Can anyone tell me what the 'normal' state an emergency light should be in when not in use. I presume the light should be off but with a lit LED to indicate that power is still getting to the light, am I right in this presumption. Any information would be greatly appreciated as we need to get the lighting fixed ASAP and I just want to be sure that they are wired correctly this time, and all the lights are operating as intended.

Regards

Stevie
Bindo
Student
Student
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:08 pm
8
Industry Sector: Food Manufacture
Location: North East Scotland

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Bindo »

Hi Stevie,

From what i know about emergency light fittings, is that they can be maintained (on all the time), non-maintained (off normally, on when there is a power cut), and switchable (switchable normally, on all the time in a power cut).

I've seen and installed all 3 types, some of the switchable type even look like normal 6ft fluorescent light fittings.

however, the ones that go off when the test is carried out may indicate that it is a standard light fitting in the place of an emergency light fitting and should be replaced, or that the battery pack is goosed, and needs to be replaced.

hope this helps

Bindo
User avatar
witsd
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:37 pm
9
Occupation: Fire safety officer
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 264 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by witsd »

Posting mainly just to confirm the above.

It's not ideal to have lots of different set-ups within one building, but as long as they stay on for the required amount of time when the power fails, their primary function is being met.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
Essex
Member
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 9:15 pm
7
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Essex »

Well meant I am sure but the above advice is not correct.

As a general rule of thumb maintained fittings are required when building users may not be familiar with the escape routes. Non-Maintained fittings are for when building users are familiar with the buildings escape routes.

The type and position on emergency lighting must be confirmed by design as per BS5266 and taking into account what is contained within the FRA. Is there a design for this building? If not then there is no way to verify what type of lighting is required and what positions they should be in and whether the required lux levels are being met.

My advice would be to have a reputable contractor carry out a full periodic inspection of the emergency lighting installation as it stands. If you are going to be advising on what should be where etc then you would need to be signing off the design also. In the event of an injury that may be caused due to poor lighting levels during an evacuation the investigators would be looking at who carried out the design.

Emergency lighting is ignored so baldly in 90% of the buildings in this country. The first step is design. This is your starting block to decide whether what you have is adequate.
Education is the key. A manager should always stand by their team. They employed them.
User avatar
witsd
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:37 pm
9
Occupation: Fire safety officer
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 90 times
Been thanked: 264 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by witsd »

Essex wrote:As a general rule of thumb maintained fittings are required when building users may not be familiar with the escape routes. Non-Maintained fittings are for when building users are familiar with the buildings escape routes.
Maybe I'm being dense, but why should that make a difference?
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'
User avatar
bernicarey
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 8973
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:50 am
15
Twitter: @bernicarey
Industry Sector: Consultancy/Training
Occupation: Safety, Health, Environment and Fire Consultant.
Location: The heart of the East Midlands...
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 300 times
Contact:

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by bernicarey »

Think about where you see them.
Maintained tend to be public places such as theatres, shopping centres, cinemas etc, so people get to be subconsciously aware of them. You're at the cinema or a show and even though it's dark, you know where the exits are.
It is a bit of a lottery though when it comes to the standard workplace. Quite often you'll see a Maintained over the Exit Door, but non-maintained in the other places.
www.belvoirsafety.co.uk

Tomorrow - your reward for being safe today...

Image
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
17
Occupation: 46 years experience with a metropolitan Fire Brigade and then Fire Safety Manager for a global brand.

Now sort of retired from the fire safety game, but doing the odd job here and there to keep my grey matter working and as I hate sudoku and havent got the back for an allotment
Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
Has thanked: 363 times
Been thanked: 660 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Messy »

My approach to maintained & non maintained signs is simple - can you see the exit sign?

If you can usually see the sign when the compartment is illuminated either naturally or by artificial light (most workplaces) - a non maintained EL sign will do to illuminate only in the event of a power cut (when you can no longer see the signs.

If you can't see the sign due to low lighting levels (cinema, restaurant etc), a maintained EL sign is perhaps required which is illuminated all the time so you can find it, and will stay illuminated during a power cut

The photo below is from a training slide I made up

EL.jpg
Essex
Member
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 9:15 pm
7
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Essex »

witsd wrote:
Essex wrote:As a general rule of thumb maintained fittings are required when building users may not be familiar with the escape routes. Non-Maintained fittings are for when building users are familiar with the buildings escape routes.
Maybe I'm being dense, but why should that make a difference?
If you are familiar with the building then you should not need to rely on signage as much in order to make your escape. Remember the reason for evacuation may not be down to lack of lighting. If, as Berni says you visit a cinema you will see maintained fittings as it is completely unreasonable to expect you to know your way to safety with or without lighting.
Education is the key. A manager should always stand by their team. They employed them.
Essex
Member
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 9:15 pm
7
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Essex »

Messy wrote:My approach to maintained & non maintained signs is simple - can you see the exit sign?

If you can usually see the sign when the compartment is illuminated either naturally or by artificial light (most workplaces) - a non maintained EL sign will do to illuminate only in the event of a power cut (when you can no longer see the signs.

If you can't see the sign due to low lighting levels (cinema, restaurant etc), a maintained EL sign is perhaps required which is illuminated all the time so you can find it, and will stay illuminated during a power cut

The photo below is from a training slide I made up

EL.jpg
Sorry but this is not correct. Emergency lighting must always assume no natural light. Eg - at night.
Education is the key. A manager should always stand by their team. They employed them.
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
17
Occupation: 46 years experience with a metropolitan Fire Brigade and then Fire Safety Manager for a global brand.

Now sort of retired from the fire safety game, but doing the odd job here and there to keep my grey matter working and as I hate sudoku and havent got the back for an allotment
Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
Has thanked: 363 times
Been thanked: 660 times

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Messy »

Essex wrote:
Messy wrote:My approach to maintained & non maintained signs is simple - can you see the exit sign?

If you can usually see the sign when the compartment is illuminated either naturally or by artificial light (most workplaces) - a non maintained EL sign will do to illuminate only in the event of a power cut (when you can no longer see the signs.

If you can't see the sign due to low lighting levels (cinema, restaurant etc), a maintained EL sign is perhaps required which is illuminated all the time so you can find it, and will stay illuminated during a power cut

The photo below is from a training slide I made up

EL.jpg
Sorry but this is not correct. Emergency lighting must always assume no natural light. Eg - at night.

I can't disagree with that, but if you read my post carefully, you will see I am referring to the issue of selecting either maintained or non maintained lighting for fire exit signage - and not wider EL design considerations. So I stick by my post which is that maintained EL signs are required when ambient light levels are low so that people can see the sign, whereas this would not be required when light levels are 'normal' as in most workplaces
User avatar
grim72
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 686
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:53 pm
13
Twitter: goodtogosafety
Industry Sector: Safety inspection systems
Location: UK
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 79 times
Contact:

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by grim72 »

I prefer to use photoluminescent signs - much easier to manage :-)
Grim72
Good to Go Safety - Providing you with a safer workplace

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes
Stevied10
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:14 pm
9
Industry Sector: Construction
Location: Lanarkshire

Re: Emergency lighting

Post by Stevied10 »

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post, they were very helpful. We have asked a reputable local company to come in and give us an inspection and to tell us what we need to get done. It looks like we have at some point had the emergency lighting partially updated but not completed which is why we seem to have two different systems in operation. Hopefully we can get the lighting to where it should be soon.

thanks again everyone for your help it was much appreciated .salut
Last edited by Alexis on Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Many thanks for this update and thanks to our members Steve.
Post Reply

 

Access Croner-i Navigate Safety-Lite here for free

HSfB Facebook Group Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy