Image

Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Discuss all things fire related and emergencies of all kinds.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
17
Occupation: 46 years experience with a metropolitan Fire Brigade and then Fire Safety Manager for a global brand.

Now sort of retired from the fire safety game, but doing the odd job here and there to keep my grey matter working and as I hate sudoku and havent got the back for an allotment
Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
Has thanked: 363 times
Been thanked: 660 times

Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by Messy »

Ok, here’s a challenging scenario:

I can’t go into too many details due to customer confidentiality.

A large modern food production run by a western company in a building located on a land locked site, and within a congested city in a third world location. It has a full European standard fire detection system, is part sprinklered, good(ish) compartmentation and is well managed. It holds perhaps 2000+ occupants and has really good, tried and tested evacuation procedures. There is no outside space or yard as goods go in and out directly from a busy street

The company need to introduce limited production 24/7. There will be far fewer staff scattered around this building at these times. The staff numbers will vary each night , and in different parts of the building depending on demand.

Establishing fire wardens (to sweep the premises after an evacuation) will be problematic as the occupancy levels with vary so much – even by the hour. Ensuring sufficient fire wardens are in place will be tricky. Therefore it is not possible to guarantee an effective sweep of the premises at these times.

The premises evacuates onto the city centre streets of this unnamed country, where crime is rampant and lawlessness is the norm. Understandably, the company cannot consider holding a roll call in this environment at 03:00.

So what options remain for accounting for staff???
laura81
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:57 am
7

Re: Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by laura81 »

I'm really not an expert here at all but do they need to actually exit the building? If it has compartments like you say how about you all meet in a foyer, unless of course there are signs of fire when you would then meet at a muster point in the street? I know many hospitals just evacuate horizontally to the next fire compartment. Or you could have one of those fire alarms with an alert phase be before the evacuation phase, so if one detector goes off then someone investigates but if two go off or a break glass is broken or it goes on for several minutes then it goes to a full alarm?
I'm probably way of the mark, but have been reading the BS for fire alarms and all of these seem like options if you existing alarm installation allows it.
I'm happy to be shot down by any fire experts!!
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 3585
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
17
Occupation: 46 years experience with a metropolitan Fire Brigade and then Fire Safety Manager for a global brand.

Now sort of retired from the fire safety game, but doing the odd job here and there to keep my grey matter working and as I hate sudoku and havent got the back for an allotment
Location: Sunny London where the streets are paved with gold ;)
Has thanked: 363 times
Been thanked: 660 times

Re: Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by Messy »

Laura - Thanks for the suggestion. Sadly the building isn't suitable for progressive horizontal evacuation - the system the NHS use that you are referring to. However, the idea of moving staff to a point in the building (and on the perimeter close to a final exit) is an attractive one, and perhaps the only possible solution

Selfishly, this an option which means I will have to travel to a poor part of this lawless country to survey the site and recommend a few changes to allow this to happen. I am ok about it, but Mrs Messy wont be pleased!
1804
Member
Member
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:53 am
14
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by 1804 »

Messy

do they have access via a card reader system? If so, could that data be manipulated to show who is in the building at any one time, so if there is an evacuation the system can say how many who entered the building by proxing their card against the reader, have not exited?

I am guessing that if that was the case, you would not have needed to post...
andybz
Snr Member
Snr Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:55 pm
17
Occupation: Consultant
Location: North Wales
Been thanked: 31 times
Contact:

Re: Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by andybz »

Google RFID site access. May give you some ideas.

I don't know anything about this company but I would think it could be suitable for you https://gaorfid.com/construction-site-a ... ol-system/

If you don't know, RFID = Radio Frequency Identification. If you watch the triathlon at the Olympics (you really should) look on the competitors ankles. These contain an RFID chip that is automatically sensed when they pass over mats at the start, in and out of transition and at the end.
Risk, safety and health
Human factors and ergonomics
http://www.simplesensiblesafety.co.uk
http://www.andybrazier.co.uk
User avatar
Safety
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 2024
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:37 am
16
Industry Sector: Food Manufacturing Industry
Occupation: Health and Safety Manager
Location: Going to see the Wizard of Oz!
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 63 times
Contact:

Re: Accounting for staff in a challenging environment

Post by Safety »

We have a fire system in place where we have clock cards, cant leave site without clocking out etc. We also use the clock system as a roll call too which works. If the fire alarm goes off all staff tap with their clock cards onto a fire system which then acts as a roll call, a printer then prints out a list of the staff who are unaccounted for.

We also have a double knock system in place where we have an intermittent alarm set at a time length e.g. 5 mins, if a fire is detected then a call point is activated which sets the system to full site evacuation.

If the first alarm is false then the main panel can be reset to stop the full site evacuation.
The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts..............
Post Reply

 

Access Croner-i Navigate Safety-Lite here for free

HSfB Facebook Group Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy