Fire Risk assesment - competency to do them

[TWDB]

Hi All,

I Hold the NEBOSH fire and risk management cert qualification (undertaken in 2011 and have annually undertaken a basic FRA for our offices.

Does the NEBOSH fire cert count as a valid qualification still / or before to undertake fire RA's on low risk properties? or with Grenfell and industry changes etc have the requirement changed - etc.

discuss

if no longer deemed competent with this what are my options?

thanks T

[SKD]

Competency is not only just displayed by qualifications, but also having an understanding of the risk/hazards presented and how to control them.

The only time the competency of the assessor will be really questioned is after an unwanted event takes place.

I hold the NEBOSH fire and I carry out our fire RA, which is a low-risk environment.

[witsd]

You've got to start somewhere.

Otherwise you could argue that someone who has never done an FRA shouldn't be considered competent to do an FRA, and then we would be stuck.

I started doing them in low-risk environments using a company-approved template with only a three-day CIEH course (or something like that - this was some time ago!). Didn't really have a clue what I was doing the first couple of times, but there was a fair amount of oversight and that template to fall back on.

Once I had the NEBOSH Fire (and Gen) I started doing residential. Again, for the first couple I was probably not really up to scratch, but all my work was peer reviewed and I took plenty of time over it to make sure that no silly mistakes crept in.

Since then, a Colin Todd course has shored me up pretty well, but there are certainly areas that I would tread very, very carefully. Does that suggest that I'm not competent, or that I'm competent enough to recognise the limits to my knowledge, and make appropriate adjustments?

[Messy]

This is controversial as many disagree, but The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order does not require the person completing the FRA to be 'competent'. But they must produce a 'suitable & sufficient' (aka compliant) FRA. This is not an error. It allows Mr & Mrs Smith who run the local corner shop with an off licence to do their FRA using the Govt guides. I got this info from one of the architects of this legislation

However, anyone assisting Mr & Mrs Smith (the Responsible Person) in applying the preventative & protective measures* (fire alarm engineer, fire safety trainer) does have to be competent. (Article 18).

Competence is defined in that Article as;
A person is to be regarded as competent for the purposes of this article where he has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist in undertaking the preventive and protective measures".


Its worth noting that the term 'preventative & protective measures' is defined as: "means the measures which have been identified by the responsible person in consequence of a risk assessment as the general fire precautions he needs to take to comply with the requirements and prohibitions imposed on him by or under this Order"

This means that the FRA produces and records the preventative & protective measures required and its that this point that 'competency' comes into play


In my humble option, competency isn't about about what you know, its recognising what you don't know. I have been in the fire safety game 43 years and a fire safety consultant the last 11 years. I am happy with most tasks I have been faced with, but have been on the edge once or twice where luckily I have a group of fellow fire safety professionals to talk to (My first FRA was an exhibition space within a 360m diameter circular building. That was a tough one). I also turned down a job at a large nuclear power station that was being decommissioned as I did not feel competent.

So its OK to say NO - in fact its essential, even if you have started the job and feel out of your depth. We are not engaged in quality control of baked beans, or counting traffic wardens - this is serious stuff and people can get hurt if you get it wrong.

[bernicarey]

Well.... Plenty of good stuff already said, especially from Messy of course.

I would just contribute the following:

a) the practical element of the Fire Cert is an FRA,
b) there has been no changes to legislation is respect of FRAs
c) the range of DIY Booklets is still there.
Just don't exceed your knowledge/experience/training/qualifications.

I'm in the midst of looking at the FRA on the common areas of an office building, done by a GRAD IOSH, MIFSM, AIFireE, Level 4 Certificate in Fire Safety (Auditor) with 27 years Fire Service experience including Fire Investigation; to see what might affect my client who is a tenant in the building (shared occupancy).

He's put the line
"There is a vehicle electrical charging point within the car park area that has two output sockets."
in the FRA with no reference to what fire safety arrangements are in place for undertaking car charging in the Ground Floor enclosed car park. As far as I can tell there is nothing.

He's also commented that glazing of doors and windows adjacent to the external fire stair does not "appear to be of fire-resistant construction".
But it's clearly marked as glazing to BSEN12150, which is safety glass and as far as I can tell comes with 30min Fire Rating. The actual BS for Fire Rated Glass seem quite diverse, depending on other aspects.

So I have a FRA from a guy who is well qualified, but leaves me with a couple of questions.

[TWDB]

Great thanks all, as always

is there a template for a low risk office environment that anyone has used - or is just develop from the guides?
regards
T