Ethical dilemma.

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:28 am

What would you do if found "bad things" during practical assignment?
How far would you go?

Post by **PaulDonaldson** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 am

You point them out and ask for them to be fixed

Messy · Post by **Messy** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:24 am

Ethical or difficult?
Can you give more details?

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:36 pm

PaulDonaldson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 am You point them out and ask for them to be fixed

What if they don't?

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:39 pm

Messy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:25 am Ethical or difficult?

It's a matter of personal opinion.

It's straight forward for me, but I wanted to hear what others have to say.

stephen1974 · Post by **stephen1974** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:07 pm

It all depends on the circumstances.

How far would I go?
I have left jobs (two actually) over bad health and safety throughout the company where change was never going to happen.
I have refused to do specific things or have staff do things until they are made safe.
I have put a stop to bad practices in process when i've not had the authority to do so.
I have made unauthorised purchases of safety equipment
I have threatened to go to the Local Authorities
I have gone to the HSE.

Almost every single time I have got in to trouble for it.
I've also allowed a lot of unsafe practices to go ahead because to have tried to stop them would have cost me my job in an instant.

I will put my job at risk to protect staff who have been told to do things that are unsafe.
I will not put my job at risk because people who know better put themselves at risk. So an electrician who wants to stand on a metal ladder in a pool with an electrical plug socket resting on a float - I will say Oi Matey Stop - wait until I have some popcorn and beer and my camera is set up before you continue.

The only safe advice on this is put your concerns in writing and send a copy to your whistleblower@gmail.com account so if the poop hits the fan you have the evidence to defend yourself and say, I told them of a problem, I gave them a solution, I do not have the authority to enforce change.

Post by **bernicarey** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:53 pm

I totally agree with stephen's sentiments.
I am in the fortunate position of working for myself, but also having sufficient financial independence that I do not have to accept work from clients who are not really interested.
I have walked away from bad clients with whom I could not work because of their lack of commitment.

Post by **Keith1983** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:23 pm

I completely agree with and have been in each and every set of circumstances Steven mentions. I have walked away from jobs and been sacked from jobs for standing up for operators safety.

Myself and my family have been in financial difficulty due to me walking away from and being sacked from jobs where I take safety far more seriously than my employer.

I have contacted the HSE about an employer whilst I have still worked there to try and influence change. The HSE massively dropped the ball on that one but that's an entirely different story!

Raise issues, and if ignored raise them again. Document that you have raised issues. If peoples lives are at risk involve the HSE and if your own mental wellbeing is at risk then walk away.

Being a safety professional can be massively rewarding but one thing it will never be is easy! Good luck and there are plenty of people here to help along the way either on the public forum or if you want a chat in private.

Post by **kevlarion** » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:41 pm

If I was doing an assignment then I would remember that I'm in training in a place that someone else manages. I may not recognise safety measures that are in place, the risk may have been assessed by a "competent" person and found acceptable. I may have noticed an isolated incident that doesn't reflect on the management of the company.
I would mention the matter to whoever is running the assignment / course and complete my assignment.
If I was able I would talk to the person taking what I considered an unnaceptable risk and ask them about it and why they do it that way. If I knew of a safer way to get the job done I would suggest it.

Most H&S assignments involve spotting things that can be improved, maybe you should consider if this instance has been staged for you to find and report in order to give you material for your portfolio.

If you are doing a practical assignment in your own workplace then you should report the matter to your manager and take a note of it in your journal. H&S is not always a fight with obstreporous managers, and you shouldn't assume it will be before you talk to them.

Remember you are asking for a change and the stages of change managment usually apply, so don't lose the rag when you see them happening... the first stage of fixing a problem is overcoming denial, so you can expect to run into denial a lot in this profession. Don't get down about it, work to overcome it.

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:46 am

Update.

I waited a month for the security manager to react and some kind of feedback but he said apparently didn't have time to read it...
I've decided that there is no point to pursue HS career and let reports like that dissapear...
So I've sent email to CEO at head office. After a week the manager miraculously managed to read the report and asked for help with action plan...

However I've decided to resign.

P.S. Passed NGC with Distinction.

Post by **Alexis** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:23 pm

Zorro wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:46 am Update.

I waited a month for the security manager to react and some kind of feedback but he said apparently didn't have time to read it...
I've decided that there is no point to pursue HS career and let reports like that dissapear...
So I've sent email to CEO at head office. After a week the manager miraculously managed to read the report and asked for help with action plan...

However I've decided to resign.

P.S. Passed NGC with Distinction.

Hi Zorro.

Thank you for the update.

congrats

On your Distinction. Well done!

I do hope, with your distinction now, you reconsider going down the H&S career path.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:57 pm

Alexis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:23 pm
Zorro wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:46 am Update.

I waited a month for the security manager to react and some kind of feedback but he said apparently didn't have time to read it...
I've decided that there is no point to pursue HS career and let reports like that dissapear...
So I've sent email to CEO at head office. After a week the manager miraculously managed to read the report and asked for help with action plan...

However I've decided to resign.

P.S. Passed NGC with Distinction.
Hi Zorro.

Thank you for the update.

On your Distinction. Well done!

I do hope, with your distinction now, you reconsider going down the H&S career path.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Thank you.

I meant it doesn't make sense if someone decided to get into H&S career but from the beginning bend the core principles and close eyes on workplace HS issues that endanger lives and health of others.