Health and Safety for Beginners Forums

Just been dealing with a franchise affiliated with an international fast food chain. I asked about sds sheets or assessments and was told they don't need them because the parent company has them all (sds) on an online portal and their chemicals are not hazardous (under ideal conditions).

How do people feel about keeping this information online only?
They also had chemicals from a contractor onsite with no coshh which they didn't argue with when I said, get copies from the company.

One of the chemicals that did have hazard symbols on is in a self contained pod that goes inside another container filled with water which then mixes together, but the outer bottle has no warning sysmbols on. The parent company saying the chemical isnt hazardous once it comes in to contact with water.

This isn't something i've come across before.

Bump

I would have no issue with COSHH information being in an online portal as long as people could get access and know what they were doing to find the information they needed.

Glen

Hang on buddy whilst your face melts, i just have to log in to the portal, hey bob, you know what the password is? no? sorry dave... dave?

My main concerns would be access when you need it and access at all as most companies dont let your low level staff have access to computers and databases etc... Its one of those perfect world situations, everything is great, until its not.

Blackstone wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:36 pm I would have no issue with COSHH information being in an online portal as long as people could get access and know what they were doing to find the information they needed

Same, I have no issues with an online system at all. The most important thing for me is the COSHH assessment calls out all the controls, the controls are well understood and monitored for compliance and effectiveness.

If there's an emergency case then the assessment will specify controls to contain the emergency and prevent it getting worse, i.e. take the casualty to the eye bath immediately, take out contact lenses, wash for 15 mins, seek medical attention if symptoms persist.

If there's a risk of an emergency needing more than first aid requirements for whatever the process is, then the emergency systems must be appropriate to the level of risk. For example, if exposure to a chemical could cause a simple redness of the skin, then washing with plenty of water and monitoring the situation could be enough. But, if consequences could be...

stephen1974 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:49 pm Hang on buddy whilst your face melts,

...then your emergency response must be able to cope every single time, without fail, with everybody well versed in the procedures. Nobody will be heading to a computer to look up information in an emergency unless that's their role as part of the emergency response. What they will do is look up the information to pass it to the ambulance service, hospital, doctor etc.

If it's an effective system, everybody using the substance will be a subject matter expert relative to the process and their role within it.

Ask an experienced spray painter in a manufacturing facility how they could get harmed doing their job, how to prevent that harm and what to do if it all goes wrong, they should be able to tell you precisely. They shouldn't need to go look it up on the paperwork. They should be able to tell you where to look it up for immediate reference though.

Ask a trainee (or a new start) spray painter in the same manufacturing facility how they could get harmed doing their job they should still be able to tell you, but I'd also expect them to know precisely where to go to find the COSHH assessment to reference before they begin work to ensure they are well versed in the safe system of work.

stephen1974 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:52 pm They also had chemicals from a contractor onsite with no coshh

No contractor should be on site without having assessed their hazardous substances properly. These should be requested, reviewed and verified before the contractor lifts a finger. If the contractor says they are held online or 'in the van' ( ), I tend to ask them to show me them.

I'd love to see this 'van' where all these risk assessments and COSHH assessments are held by the way!! It must be mahoosive!

stephen1974 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:52 pm This isn't something i've come across before.

Nope, not seen this before.

Agree with everything you've sid but the point I was making is that the supplier is saying they dont NEED assessments done. All they need is the SDS online and they can forget about it, they are covered.

Being, if there claims are true, a supplier and trainer to some of the biggest food companies in the world, that does carry some weight to it and the client is inclined to take their claims of not needing to do anything more over me saying, i'd like you to assess how you use chemicals in the work place.

Again, weight is added to their position by the fact that the FSA would seemingly go along with this, and they must do, or they are ignoring a problem that would exist in tens of thousands of businesses. Just this franchise brand alone has 1700 branches.

Well, in fact, if the SDS does not identify any substance as hazardous to health, there is no need of an assessment.
This is perfect for all.

Got to remember in all of this that the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is the manufacturers details of what harm can be done and how to store, emergency precautions etc.

It is not a COSSH Assessment, stating how much you will use, how you will use it etc etc

Will

joaorosa80 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:20 pm Well, in fact, if the SDS does not identify any substance as hazardous to health, there is no need of an assessment.
This is perfect for all.

The problems here are
1. The SDS is online and i'm not allowed to access it, so I don't know what it says.
2. The packaging carries warning sysmbols.
3. The employees have been told not to get the chemical on their skin neat.
4. The supplier is saying its non hazardous, as long as, it comes in to contact with water.

The employees are not even bothing to look at the sds because they have been told 100% catagorically, they dont have to.

Hi @stephen1974,
Sorry but only now I have seen your comment.

Well depends on your positions in the business, are in internal or external?
1. The SDS is online and i'm not allowed to access it, so I don't know what it says.
Well, if you are not allowed to access, I will refer that, that you cannot determine if a COSHH Assessment is needed or not, without seeing the SDS.
2. The packaging carries warning sysmbols.
If the packaging carriers symbols, are they hazardous symbols? If yes, most likely, will have hazardous phases as well.
3. The employees have been told not to get the chemical on their skin neat.
Why? It is, not water for sure!
4. The supplier is saying its non hazardous, as long as, it comes in to contact with water.
Have you spoken with the supplier? Is not non hazardous when in contact with water.
So we are talking in a concentrated solution. A COSHH assessment will be needed.

The employees are not even bothing to look at the sds because they have been told 100% catagorically, they dont have to.
Once again, depends on your positions, are you a consultant? You can simply, state what the client says, or call them laiers.