We've rebooted our Facebook Group. If groups are your thing, join up and let's make it as amazing and friendly as our forums!

Click here for HSfB's Facebook Group Image

Mandotory PPE

Discuss all things health and safety.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Lex1212189
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:25 pm

Mandotory PPE

Post by Lex1212189 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:21 pm

I work in Train Maintenance Depot.

PPE is provided (Bump caps in this instance) an worn around certain areas of the depot but not all.

After a few accidents/near misses lately, management is insisting on making hard hats mandatory around the whole site.

As a safety rep, I have to listen to other employees opinions and they are rejecting the idea. There main issues are: Temperature and lack of ergonomic considerations

Any guidance on this? I feel like devils advocate in this situation

User avatar
David68
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 1637
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:22 pm
Twitter: @Dyer0145
Industry Sector: manufacturing
Occupation: H&S Manager
Location: Loughborough
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by David68 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:42 pm

I am not a fan of mandatory, site-wide rules, particularly for PPE.

What were the near misses?
Would the wearing of head protection prevent injury or would other measures that are higher up the hierarchy of control be more effective?
What does the risk assessment say about head injuries.

I have changed the head protection PPE for our staff from hard hats to bump caps because I was able to implement a couple of additional measures with regard to working at height the likelihood of tools falling.
Grad IOSH - Tick
CMIOSH - one day! ../.

User avatar
Elf&Safety
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:11 pm
Industry Sector: Micro-Electronics Manufacture
Occupation: Health, Safety and Environmental Officer
Location: England

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by Elf&Safety » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:38 am

I think you should try and get buy in... present facts and figures... show them consequences. Educate them as to why it benefits them. If a need has been identified and hard hats do need to be worn on site all the time; they have no choice except breeching section 7 of HASAWA; which to me can be gross misconduct. I don't like going down the discipline route; i would much prefer a buy - in / behavoural safety approach, but it depends on risk level to be honest.

Is there a genuine need or are managers just jumping the gun? Have they followed the hierarchy of controls? As in, PPE is the last resort..

Essex
Member
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 9:15 pm
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by Essex » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:11 pm

It is already mandatory for railway workers to wear hard hats?
Education is the key. A manager should always stand by their team. They employed them.

User avatar
Lex1212189
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by Lex1212189 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:28 pm

Not in a depot based environment I don't believe Essex


stephen1974
Snr Member
Snr Member
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by stephen1974 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:22 pm

Can I ask what incidents have lead to the company saying bump caps are not suitable? or is this an over reaction situation?

User avatar
Lex1212189
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by Lex1212189 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:24 pm

A ceiling panel fell down in the cab end of the trian and hit the shunter on the head. No riddor injury.

Panel was left up on the side of the train when stabled in depot. Engineer walking down walkway cut head. Riddor reportable.

It seems like a typical reaction of management......PPE EVERYWERE, ANYWERE and ALL THE TIME.

Im willing to work with management and make poe mandatory in certain areas but making in mandatory at all times I believe is counterproductive.

There has been no ergonomic considerations.
Theres is already a temperature issue on the trains affecting thermal comfort.
Nor has the hierachal approach to managing safety been abided by.

Lex

stephen1974
Snr Member
Snr Member
Posts: 388
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:55 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by stephen1974 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:37 am

Was the shunter wearing a bump cap and if so, did this protect him from injury?
Was the engineer wearing a bump cap and if so, how did he get cut?
How would a hard hat have made a difference in either case (if bump caps were worn?)

I guess you have to put your faith in hard hats, they wouldn't be used if they were no good, but my (very limited) experience of them is that they awkward to keep on your head and likely to fall off at the slightest knock, so not useful if seveal objects were coming down on you. Also, anything falling thats heavy enough or striking with anough force to split a decent bump cap open is likely to cause injury through crushing making a hard hat of limited use anyway. Though again, how many decades of use? clearly they serve a proper purpose.

One would hope that falling panels, or other items, are not a common place hazard, so i'm not seeing the argument for Hard hats.

User avatar
The Instructor
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:45 pm
Industry Sector: Training
Occupation: Managing Director, Forklift Instructor, NVQ Assessor, currently undertaking nebosh gc
Location: Cambridgeshire
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by The Instructor » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:10 pm

Just taking it back to basics, Clear up as you go method, if the panel had been placed in a specific area for such items rather than just lent up against the train, near a pedestrian route, then all would've been well.

So going forward, to prevent this kind of thing happening again, any loose items or materials or panels that need to be repaired are placed in a designated area, away from pedestrians or pedestrian routes.

Personally I would corner of this area and apply the appropriate signage, to warn others of potentially sharp objects.

Hazard sorted, risk lowered to 2% ....no real need for hard hats or even bump caps IMHO, although gloves would be a good idea if handling sharp edges of panels.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, provided it harms none!
http://www.cabtraining.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Accredited Forklift Training

User avatar
Lex1212189
Jnr Member
Jnr Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Mandotory PPE

Post by Lex1212189 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:25 am

Thanks for all the above advice.

Will take it all on board

Post Reply

 

Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy