Giving Up!
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Giving Up!
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like they are banging there head against a brick wall. I get a little top up in my wages to control H&S in our workplace as well as my full time job. We are a working factory with machines, spray booths, lifting equipment etc. I am forever looking like the BAD ONE. Why should I be going round in the little spare time I have telling people to get the PPE on, not to eating and drink on the shop floor when there foremen and managers are stood next to them.! Sorry for the moan but. I have had enough!
Am I wrong for wanting to use the line "Told you so"? when something serious happens?
Am I wrong for wanting to use the line "Told you so"? when something serious happens?
- bernicarey
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Re: Giving Up!
Typical situation unfortunately.
You have to start at the top and work down, you can't get a safe workplace from the bottom or the middle, though sometimes Unions might try this following problems.
Example, I had a tyre changed yesterday at a place I'd not been to before and had been recommended as good value. It was a pretty untidy mess and the guy changing my tyre was smoking while doing so.
I didn't say anything because would I get anywhere? No, I'd need to work on the ownership for months. I might now target them for some safety information and see what happens, probably nothing. I might just have a word with the Local Authority concerned as an easier option.
What you need to do is start working on the Boss by scaring the living daylights out of him/her for what it could cost them when something happens, because eventually it will.
You have to start at the top and work down, you can't get a safe workplace from the bottom or the middle, though sometimes Unions might try this following problems.
Example, I had a tyre changed yesterday at a place I'd not been to before and had been recommended as good value. It was a pretty untidy mess and the guy changing my tyre was smoking while doing so.
I didn't say anything because would I get anywhere? No, I'd need to work on the ownership for months. I might now target them for some safety information and see what happens, probably nothing. I might just have a word with the Local Authority concerned as an easier option.
What you need to do is start working on the Boss by scaring the living daylights out of him/her for what it could cost them when something happens, because eventually it will.
- Coolcat
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Re: Giving Up!
We all have times or jobs like this. Sometimes it is a case of moving on or getting the MD to sit down and show how much better the place could be if the managers/supervisors would do their job. Maybe there is a reason why they do not, but without the understanding of why it will never get better.
Keep it constructive, you still have to work with them
Keep it constructive, you still have to work with them
In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
--Albert Camus
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Re: Giving Up!
Sorry to hear of your problem, Scottie. If you just want to let off steam, fair enough. If you were looking for advice, i would suggest giving notice to quit your H&S post (considering it only provides a 'little' financial addition) due to the fact you do not receive the neccessary backing, in your opinion from Foremen and Managers.scottiescott123 wrote:Is it just me or does anyone else feel like they are banging there head against a brick wall. I get a little top up in my wages to control H&S in our workplace as well as my full time job. We are a working factory with machines, spray booths, lifting equipment etc. I am forever looking like the BAD ONE. Why should I be going round in the little spare time I have telling people to get the PPE on, not to eating and drink on the shop floor when there foremen and managers are stood next to them.! Sorry for the moan but. I have had enough!
Am I wrong for wanting to use the line "Told you so"? when something serious happens?
Send this in writing or by e-mail to your MD or Company H&S Manager. Tell them you can foresee potential litigation against the company due to the fact that Foremen and Managers stand next to them whilst they are not wearing the required PPE (a legal obligation, not just a company one) and they are also allowing people to eat and drink on the shop floor as opposed to the designated area after washing their hands properly.
State what an accident will do to the company in terms of morale, investigations, lost time and possible fines and explain your remorse at not being able to be part of a PROACTIVE H&S system.
Thank them for giving you an opportunity to TRY and improve things but feel you have taken it as far as you can under the present conditions.
That will also be a defence for you, if required in court.
Good luck with your choice.
- ScoobyDoo
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Re: Giving Up!
I'm with Frankie and Bernie
Using the approach that Frankie has suggested, and making it very clear that you do not want to be morally and legally accountable in the event of an accident - should succeed in scaring them - if not, then maybe you are wasting your time any way (even as I type that - I'm shuddering ).
Might be worth finishing with something like ' it's such a shame, as we could have made so many improvements, with the right support' ?
Using the approach that Frankie has suggested, and making it very clear that you do not want to be morally and legally accountable in the event of an accident - should succeed in scaring them - if not, then maybe you are wasting your time any way (even as I type that - I'm shuddering ).
Might be worth finishing with something like ' it's such a shame, as we could have made so many improvements, with the right support' ?
Re: Giving Up!
Unfortunately it sometimes is the case that you have to walk. About 5 years ago I was working for a company and the management did not have any problems with risk.
In the end after less than 6 months in the job I had to quit. I know of a local company near here who get through 2/3 new H&S Managers per year.
Not everyone is a saint, there are some sinners out there.
garry
In the end after less than 6 months in the job I had to quit. I know of a local company near here who get through 2/3 new H&S Managers per year.
Not everyone is a saint, there are some sinners out there.
garry
Re: Giving Up!
Sorry to hear about your trouble but as the others have suggested you maybe should think about walking?
If you want to continue the H&S path then try to find a company that will back you and do everything they can to help you.
But if you plan on dropping the H&S then i would still think of looking for a new place as clearly they don't care for H&S thus putting you at risk.
Good luck with what you decide to do!
-c-j-r-
If you want to continue the H&S path then try to find a company that will back you and do everything they can to help you.
But if you plan on dropping the H&S then i would still think of looking for a new place as clearly they don't care for H&S thus putting you at risk.
Good luck with what you decide to do!
-c-j-r-
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Re: Giving Up!
Frankie and others have summed up your options eloquently.
The issues you have described are not hard or too costly to resolve IF you have management buy in.
So after you have presented your findings in writing to management, then you need to evaluate their response in terms of your future.
Keep us informed and you will get more assistance as your problem progresses
The issues you have described are not hard or too costly to resolve IF you have management buy in.
So after you have presented your findings in writing to management, then you need to evaluate their response in terms of your future.
Keep us informed and you will get more assistance as your problem progresses
- kevlarion
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Re: Giving Up!
There is a third option.
Tell your manager that you need someone to come in and carry out a h&s audit of the site so that you know where the company (not you on your own) need to concentrate your efforts.
Tell your manager you need some training to bring you up to date with the current requirements of H&S management.
Very often there is a problem with part time H&S that they are not seen as "professional" because most of the time they are doing something else and getting a recognised professional to come in and point out where things need to improve will be taken more seriously by senior managers.
I suggest you also look at your h&s policy, there is a requirement in HASWA that your policy should identify who is responsible for the various aspects of H&S management.
Specify that the MD is responsible for resourcing and supporting the implementation of the policy.
Specify that Foremen and Managers are responsible for ensuring that the tasks they control have been risk assessed, and control measures agreed are implemented, including the wearing of any PPE required.
If you can pull that off, H&S management for you should become much easier, carrying out risk assessments, and carrying out audits which you would report to the senior manager on site (since he is the one that'll stand in the dock if something goes wrong).
Show the senior managers section 37 of HASWA, which explains that they can be prosecuted as individuals, and fined / jailed as individuals in the event of an HSE prosecution if they are found to be implicated in a serious accident. That might help get them on board.
Set an example in your other work... be careful to ensure you work to H&S standards when you are doing your other work.
Tell your manager that you need someone to come in and carry out a h&s audit of the site so that you know where the company (not you on your own) need to concentrate your efforts.
Tell your manager you need some training to bring you up to date with the current requirements of H&S management.
Very often there is a problem with part time H&S that they are not seen as "professional" because most of the time they are doing something else and getting a recognised professional to come in and point out where things need to improve will be taken more seriously by senior managers.
I suggest you also look at your h&s policy, there is a requirement in HASWA that your policy should identify who is responsible for the various aspects of H&S management.
Specify that the MD is responsible for resourcing and supporting the implementation of the policy.
Specify that Foremen and Managers are responsible for ensuring that the tasks they control have been risk assessed, and control measures agreed are implemented, including the wearing of any PPE required.
If you can pull that off, H&S management for you should become much easier, carrying out risk assessments, and carrying out audits which you would report to the senior manager on site (since he is the one that'll stand in the dock if something goes wrong).
Show the senior managers section 37 of HASWA, which explains that they can be prosecuted as individuals, and fined / jailed as individuals in the event of an HSE prosecution if they are found to be implicated in a serious accident. That might help get them on board.
Set an example in your other work... be careful to ensure you work to H&S standards when you are doing your other work.
If it isn't broken, that doesn't mean you can't improve it. (Do three negatives make a positive ?)
- David68
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Re: Giving Up!
DittoMWoodman wrote:I know that feeling!
Its nice to know im not the only one who has those days!
Over the last 3 days I have had -
"You learnt your health and safety from a book, I have 20 years experience of working in safety" - a manager with out a formally recognised qualification in H&S telling me a risk assessment was too detailed (The document he wanted me to use as a template was more of a method statement and missed some quite important areas - human factors on a work at height and lifting operation!)
"When proper Health and Safety looked at it, not just you" - from a manager
You have to work with and on managers and sometimes it is not easy.
Grad IOSH - Tick
CMIOSH - one day!
CMIOSH - one day!