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Huge fire at tower block

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:43 pm

bernicarey wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 pm
Interesting piece in the Guardian about the Contractors, their Subbies and how the project seems to be disappearing from some corporate websites.....
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... lity-issue
The link I posted has been taken down as was a link in regards to the materials used on the cladding (via another fire safety forum).
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Messy » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:06 pm

I have accessed a planning drawing of the cladding and insulation fitted to Grenfell Tower during the refurbishment. It is sourced from a publicly available source so the Moderators can relax!!

The cross sectional drawing shows an external 3mm zink (sic) rain panel, a 50mm ventilation gap and 100mm of fire resistant (Class 0 to BS476) Cellotex FR5000 insulation.

As described in the application, I would not have had an issue waiving this proposal through if it had landed on my desk in my old fire safety inspector days as a building control consultation as it seems fine

I am even more confused now. So what the hell went wrong?

I have a few ideas, but they are best guesses so I won't record them here
spandrel.jpeg

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:58 pm

Messy wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:06 pm
I have accessed a planning drawing of the cladding and insulation fitted to Grenfell Tower during the refurbishment. It is sourced from a publicly available source so the Moderators can relax!!

The cross sectional drawing shows an external 3mm zink (sic) rain panel, a 50mm ventilation gap and 100mm of fire resistant (Class 0 to BS476) Cellotex FR5000 insulation.

As described in the application, I would not have had an issue waiving this proposal through if it had landed on my desk in my old fire safety inspector days as a building control consultation as it seems fine

I am even more confused now. So what the hell went wrong?

I have a few ideas, but they are best guesses so I won't record them here

spandrel.jpeg
Some fire tests are not appropriate in some cases, I don't see if the cladding was tested to BS 8414-1?.

Interesting article on this below;

http://ifpmag.mdmpublishing.com/exterio ... bal-scale/
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Messy » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:29 am

The cellotex is tested to BS 476-7 I think. Perfect for vertical hung material but I am not sure it considers flammable gases trapped in the 25mm ventilation gap

Time will tell

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Waterbaby » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:50 pm

../.

Correspondence - Safety checks following the Grenfell Tower fire
From: Department for Communities and Local Government
Published:19 June 2017

"Melanie Dawes CB, Permanent Secretary for the Department For Communities and Local Government, writes to local authority and housing association chief executives about safety checks following the Grenfell Tower fire."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... tower-fire

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by bernicarey » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:15 pm

It's a pity that the BBC Panorama programme was all about the victims and the anger (you might even say seeking to lay blame like some sort of kangaroo court ahead of any formal investigation) rather than giving a balanced content including the contribution of the Blue Light Services.

I doubt there was as much as 90 seconds about the Firefighters efforts.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ains-shame


...and as an afterthought, can we have that woman in the car at 25:30 done for driving without a seatbelt. Because I'm sure she didn't take it off just to appear on TV. .salut
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by Waterbaby » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:36 pm

../.

Notice Letter to providers on health and safety
From: Homes and Communities Agency
Part of: Rented housing sector
Published: 20 June 2017
Applies to: England

"The regulator of social housing has written to all registered providers reminding them of their obligations to comply with all relevant legislation. This requires that registered providers shall meet all applicable statutory requirements that provide for the health and safety of occupants in their homes."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... and-safety

WB
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change"
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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by stephen1974 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:31 pm

I live in a block flats, only 3 storeys, a noticed a few months ago that they removed all the fire extinguishers from the building. They've not put them back yet, wondering if they will.

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:53 pm

stephen1974 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:31 pm
I live in a block flats, only 3 storeys, a noticed a few months ago that they removed all the fire extinguishers from the building. They've not put them back yet, wondering if they will.
This is the norm these days due to the risk of tampering/lack of training on the use/persons potentially putting themselves in more danger if they tackle fire and block their MOE. I cannot see what happened changing this approach? time will tell...

Nothing stopping residents in obtaining their own fire extinguishers if they feel the need.
The song goes...{I'm gonna walk down to electric avenue and I'm gonna say ' have you got PAT testing records for all that mate'}

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by witsd » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 am

Yeah, as Hammer says, outside of plant rooms that is totally normal.

Personally, I think that subconsciously encouraging untrained people to fight fires is a terrible idea, but in people's minds at the moment, they are seeing fires spreading throughout tower blocks, when 99.9% of cases that spread just doesn't happen.
We often think that when we have completed our study of one we know all about two, because 'two' is 'one and one.' We forget that we still have to make a study of 'and.'

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by bernicarey » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:16 am

witsd wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 am
Personally, I think that subconsciously encouraging untrained people to fight fires is a terrible idea, but in people's minds at the moment, they are seeing fires spreading throughout tower blocks, when 99.9% of cases that spread just doesn't happen.
Yes, the Media are hyping up people's fears and concerns, as they usually do, whilst not asking the 'unpalatable' questions.
Most people are rightly assuming that there was a problem with the external cladding wrapping the building in fire, but nobody is daring to enquire as to why the internal central staircase was so affected so quickly. There are a number of things going through my head as to what caused the rapid breach of compartmentalisation at what appears to multiple places.
The last thing that was needed was people staying behind trying to save their flat with a 9Ltr water.
http://www.belvoirsafety.co.uk Tomorrow - your reward for being safe today...

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Re: Huge fire at tower block

Post by hammer1 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:59 pm

witsd wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:58 am
Yeah, as Hammer says, outside of plant rooms that is totally normal.

Personally, I think that subconsciously encouraging untrained people to fight fires is a terrible idea, but in people's minds at the moment, they are seeing fires spreading throughout tower blocks, when 99.9% of cases that spread just doesn't happen.
In regards to blocks of flats Stats show In 2009-2010, of over 8,000 fires in these blocks, only 22 fires necessitated evacuation of more than five people with the assistance of the fire and rescue service.
The song goes...{I'm gonna walk down to electric avenue and I'm gonna say ' have you got PAT testing records for all that mate'}

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