H&S Considerations relating to incompetence

worrieduser · Post by **worrieduser** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:15 pm

Hi all,

I wonder if any of you can offer some advice?

brief summary on situation -

there's someone at work who did not have the aptitude to do the job that we are required to do, this includes not having an awareness or understanding about what it takes to produce the deliverables our department is responsible for (because of the fact he has never done it).

He has the gift of the gab however and management kept him on giving him a token role which involved 'supervising' everyone else and distributing workload. By using the word token I mean we already had managers and we had been self regulating this aspect of our work for years without the need for someone in this position.

the upshot of this was that resource management was poor. This guy requested one person's opinion (who was new to the work) on how long it would take to produce each item and then put this down as the benchmark. The other flaw was that he was attending all the meetings (and having no knowledge of the work involved or even a simple case of ensuring that new work which was starting during the earlier stages matched the development from our stage) - when these were handed over to us every contract was different meaning we couldn't re-use the tools which had been developed for the work that we had already completed and sent out, plus we had to salvage what we could and spent more time correcting the resulting errors. two situations developed which were either that the work was not completed and was sent on to the next stage in an almost unusable state or for those who wished to complete work, overtime working was necessary (to the point that it has caused ill health amongst the workforce). To make matters even worse, another manager was appointed, who has similar credentials to the first guy, in other words he knows nothing. the dynamics of our workplace evolved into a culture of bullying, with these two defending each other and passing the blame for the deteriorating department onto those who tried to speak out against these conditions.

Formal grievances were aired about this, but HR aligned themselves with the managers. The complainants were then disciplined for poor performance.

I wanted to know, can they really do this? How would the CDM regulators and HSE look at this case? Because the situation here is that the employer will just say that the managers were right and were not incompetent because that is how it works in our industry. Witnesses would not volunteer information against this for fear of losing their jobs.

Would CDM or HSE conduct an investigation? what are the pros and pitfalls of taking this further and what should my employer be doing to rectify the situation.

Any help or info would be greatly appreaciated thanks!

Ian Rienewerf · Post by **Ian Rienewerf** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:39 pm

There are no H&S issues from your description above.
I very much doubt that the HSE will get involved with poor production levels, bonus scheme disputes, or internal management decisions - which this appears to be.

The CDM approved code of practice defines the competence levels for management.
However, it doesn't include being a skilled plumber, brickie, plasterer or sparkie.

So unfortunately, it looks to be an internal matter.
Your next course of action will depend on whether you subscibe to a trade union or not.

lizzie · Post by **lizzie** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:55 pm

Hi worried

ACAS are an impartial service who can offer advice and mediation between employers & employees. Here's there contact details.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have a union on site, get them involved ASAP

Best of luck to you and your colleagues, I hope you all get this situation resolved

Lizzie

Post by **Alexis** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:54 am

Hi worried,

I am in agreement with Ian and Lizzie. If you are in a union, then a telephone call to them would be my first port of call - again, as Lizzie says ASAP.

I admire you for not sitting around just talking about the situation you and your colleagues find yourselves in and attempting to do something about it.

Please contact your union or ACAS.

Good luck to you. I sincerely hope you manage to resolve your problem.

Post by **Jack Kane** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:59 pm

Hey Worrieduser,

Welcome to the forums

If bullying is an issue in your workplace, then the HSE has pages dedicated to bullying and harassment that may be of use.....

http://www.hse.gov.uk/stress/furtheradv ... ssment.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wish you all the best with this.

worrieduser · Post by **worrieduser** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:27 pm

Thanks to everybody for their valuable advice

Another question though, out of curiosity

. I thought CDM regulations were applicable to the construction industry in general? I'm interested to know why sparkies etc. are excluded from this? wouldn't it be dangerous to for an unskilled or unqualified technician to take on this sort of work? If they did not have the know how to work safely e.g. say they did not isolate the power before commencing work and an accident followed who would be held responsible for this. Presuming safe working permits were issued on the basis that the person undertaking the work had informed the issuer that he knew what he was doing.

Ian Rienewerf · Post by **Ian Rienewerf** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:48 pm

Hi Worried,
I'll try and clarify my comments.

The managers need to be competent as project mangers - first & foremost.
So even though I suggested that the managers don't need to be experienced tradesmen,
they would still need the ability to listen, evaluate, and adapt the work schedule accordingly.

The failures you mention above suggest that there could be some serious competence issues, and room for improvement.
Fair enough.
But I'm pretty sure that any subcontractor issues will be dealt with by the principle contractor onsite - internally.
And the HSE enforcement / CDM regulations will only apply to site operators only - they need to ensure the site operates safely and correctly.

There is some CDM guidance here different levels of responsibility:
http://www.cskills.org/supportbusiness/ ... index.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although you say the job is rapidly going belly-up - are there any actual safety issues onsite?
Unfortunately, the HSE won't get involved with missed deadlines, poor workmanship, and a de-moralised workforce.
Again - the site management would be the first port of call to ensure onsite safety.
Via the principle contractor - or the M&E sub departments.

The site I worked on had near-miss forms which could be submitted anonymously if req'd.

Ian Rienewerf · Post by **Ian Rienewerf** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:53 pm

Electrical installations come under seperate workplace regs - but not CDM.

The HSE would enforce, and be likely to procecute if 240v installations were being completed by unqualifed staff.