Get Listed for Free on our New Business Directory

Want greater exposure? Here's a 75% discount code for all paid packages - HSfB17

Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Discuss all things fire related.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 2734
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
Location: Job based in Central London

Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Post by Messy » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:42 am

I have a large building on my portfolio where 2 out of the 8 dry risers failed a test last week and need urgent repairs

The property is on a 'Red Route' so special permission is required for a vehicle to be parked outside to enable the re testing of the dry risers when repaired. The local authority will not give permission until the new year. They note that a traffic management plan is in place for mid January to facilitate other maintenance works and have implied that we should cluster various works together.

Of course I telephoned them to inform them this was life safety equipment and a legal requirement and I was not happy for it not to be available for 8 weeks due to bureaucracy. That didn't go down so well and my plea for common sense fell on deaf ears. I have asked the dry riser maintenance company if they could park in a side street and run 200+m of hose to the dry riser inlet. They will not entertain due to risk of injury to passers by if a hose bursts. Even with Heras block & Mesh fencing to keep the public away, I do accept that this could be an issue, and the local authority wont allow it anyway!!!

I am off today (as I was working the weekend) and will try and canvas support form the fire service tomorrow, but what a ridiculous position to get into :banghead:

User avatar
Waterbaby
HSfB Moderator
HSfB Moderator
Posts: 2761
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:53 am
Industry Sector: Medical
Location: Ireland

Re: Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Post by Waterbaby » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:10 am

Messy wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:42 am
They note that a traffic management plan is in place for mid January to facilitate other maintenance works and have implied that we should cluster various works together.

Of course I telephoned them to inform them this was life safety equipment and a legal requirement and I was not happy for it not to be available for 8 weeks due to bureaucracy.
Seems like someone doesn't want the extra work of sorting this now as plan in place for Jan :confused1:

Is there an 'emergency / urgent' order that can be used ( fire brigade, which is ridiculous that they would have to invoke same ) ? .scratch

WB
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change"
Charles Darwin (1809-1882)

baywaves
Student
Student
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Post by baywaves » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:46 am

Messy

You say you 'telephoned' them. Cover your back and confirm the conversation in writing. Something along the lines of:-

[i]Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to confirm the conversation that I have had recently with you regarding the testing of the dry risers at ………premises.

During our conversation I brought to your attention that the testing and maintenance of dry risers is a mandatory and statutory requirement required for life safety reasons.

Nonetheless you have informed me that even though I have brought this to your attention, you will not provide me with the necessary permit to park the testing vehicle outside the premises on your Red Route until mid to late January.

If I have misunderstood your response, then please get back to me at your earliest convenience. If I do not hear back from you within the next few days then I will assume that my interpretation of your response was correct.

Yours sincerely
[/i]

User avatar
bernicarey
Anorak Extraordinaire
Anorak Extraordinaire
Posts: 7771
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:50 am
Twitter: @bernicarey
Industry Sector: Consultancy/Training
Location: The heart of the East Midlands...
Contact:

Re: Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Post by bernicarey » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:25 am

Messy

In my dealings with local authorities, I find the response usually varies between ineptitude and incompetence until I get a bit of a firm grip and tell them a few home truths.

Good advice from Baywaves, but obviously time could be of the essence here and you can't afford to have delays.

In this case I would forget telephone calls unless you inform them that you are recording the call and will produce it as evidence in any eventual legal proceedings, which could potentially include manslaughter.
Then, inform them that you wish to speak with someone of authority in the relevant department, ie. whomever controls the Red Route access. At that point, you then scare the living daylights out of that person too.
Tell them you will be reporting them to the relevant Fire Service (London I assume as that's the only place I know with Red Routes) and they might care to think extremely carefully of their response at this point, given the position that Kensington & Chelsea are currently in. If that is too subtle for them, drop a few sarcastic clues about tower blocks and fires.

Ask them how their Red Route would be affected by 5+ Fire Appliances in the road all day?

:twisted: :twisted:

.salut
http://www.belvoirsafety.co.uk Tomorrow - your reward for being safe today...

User avatar
Messy
Grand Shidoshi
Grand Shidoshi
Posts: 2734
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:59 am
Location: Job based in Central London

Re: Bureaucracy Gone Mad

Post by Messy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:16 pm

Talking to this particular LA is tough going. A Town Hall filled to the brim with jobsworths.

However we have found a work around without involving the LA. But I can't really detail it here - yet 😉

Post Reply

 

 Health, Environment and Risk Training - for all your NEBOSH, IOSH and in-house training. Contact us for excellent consultancy rates

Follow us on Twitter Find us on Facebook Find us on on LinkedIn

Terms of Use Privacy Policy