Awkward worker

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:30 pm

Hi All,

I have a problem with a worker who is having trouble wearing PPE - specifically steel toecap footwear. Everything I buy for him is "uncomfortable" or "not suitable" and after spending dozens of hours trying to find something that he will wear, is really starting to grate.

I know that we have a legal obligation to provide him with the necessary PPE, but how far does that obligation go? Should we give him the day off work and pay for him to go to a specialist and have his feet measured and have bespoke shoes made for him?

He's a size 13, so he's a big boy, but no matter how wide the shoes are, "the toecap keeps cutting in." I've even tried him with rubber overshoes with steel toecaps and I can't get a good fit with those either. They're stretchy, so I thought I was onto a winner, but no, they're too loose!

I just think that anything I find, he isn't going to wear. Where do I stand with it?

Post by **Alexis** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:39 pm

Hi Plastic Man.

Welcome to HSfB. Good to have you aboard.

I am hoping some of our members who have encountered similar difficulties, will come in and tell you how they fixed the problem.

As you know, your RA has deemed it necessary to have steel toe-capped boots as a PPE requirement, but they must be "fit for purpose" AND fit properly without causing the wearer any problems, so in my view, you really have to make allowances in this case.

If you have a specific supplier that your organisation uses, then ask them to come in and help find the right pair of boots for this worker. If they cost more, then so be it to stay compliant would be my thoughts.

Failing a suitable pair being found, there is a case, slightly different from yours though, where the company could not find an alternative pair of suitable boots, nor find another job within the organisation where boots were not a requirement, so the company dismissed the worker.
Familoe v Lane Group https://businessdatabase.indicator-flm. ... R_EU062007

You obviously don't want to go down this route, so first step, whilst biting your tongue

would be to have that salesman come in with umpteen boots to try out.

Sorry not much help and probably only saying what you are going to do anyway.

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:46 am

Thank you for your reply Alexis.

At this stage, I am willing for him to do whatever is necessary so that he can comply. If that means driving him in my own car to a specialist, I'm happy to do that. I cringe whenever I see him lifting anything heavier than a lunchbox, because I'm all too aware of what could happen with unprotected feet.

The problem I have is that there seems to be very few stores that cater for this. Sure, there's hundreds online, but I need an actual store that can measure his feet and has a large selection of shoes or boots that he can try on. He tells me he's always had this problem throughout his working life and his previous employers have had to just let him wear trainers.

Safetysmurf · Post by **Safetysmurf** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:56 am

Morning Plastic man.

Have you tried Arco?
They have a vast range of oversize safety shoes/trainers/boots.
www.arco.co.uk
They have branches throughout the uk.
Give them a call or ask for the catalogue to have a look at the range

SS

quality_somerset · Post by **quality_somerset** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:18 am

I have a horrible feeling that no matter what you supply the person just does not want to wear safety boots. I have the same problem with an employee wearing ear protection, he even found custom moulded earplugs uncomfortable!

Had a quick web search and i found this company that makes custom boots for work:

http://www.altberg.co.uk/fitting/custom-boot-fitting/

Not going to be cheap but it may be worth having a chat with them to see what they can offer, they make custom boots for the MOD amongst others so they should be able to offer you some good advice.

Regards
QS

witsd · Post by **witsd** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:54 am

I'm a size 12, and had this exact problem with the boot-style steel capped shoes I had been supplied with – no matter which style I wore, the toe cap dug into the top of my foot (to the point I could show my management the red mark across the top of my foot (not sure they appreciated the post-work sweaty feet, but the point was made).

In the end, I got them to agree that I could get my own steel caps, which were perfectly comfortable to the point that I still have the same pair that I bought at the time: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006XBUZQ4/

I wasn't offered the price of the boots (I maintain that they should have at least offered the amount that they spend on the supplied boots), but at least I could work in comfort.

Post by **bernicarey** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:24 pm

Safety Footwear does seem to be an area when sizing isn't great.

Looking back at my RAF career, when safety footwear started to become the 'norm' for engineers rather than the exception, they were pretty good.
Regular RAF footwear, shoes and boots, had always come in width fittings, and they probably tendered for their own designs from BATA, who seemed to make all MOD footwear in the 70s and 80s.
But as the 80's progressed into the 90's, things became more diverse, probably due to more competitive tendering and also in an attempt to stop engineers wearing their safety footwear all the time, at an increased cost (why change your shoes when you get to work if the safety footwear is also black...

They started off having the same boots but in brown instead of black, but engineers being a resourceful bunch, started to paint/stain them black....So they then provided safety 'trainers' in blue which stood out when outside the immediate workplace, which didn't have width fittings and I had to go up 2 sizes just to get some that didn't hurt when I knelt down and bent my toes (engineers do a lot of kneeling and crawling around on aircraft)

The point of this little anecdote, have you considered that the width might be the problem?
There are places that sell wide safety shoes.

stephen1974 · Post by **stephen1974** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Let him get his own and reimburse him for the cost. Then he cant complain.

Post by **wendolene26** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:05 am

stephen1974 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:09 pm Let him get his own and reimburse him for the cost. Then he cant complain.

As long as there is a control mechanism to ensure that they meet the standards required

stephen1974 · Post by **stephen1974** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:53 pm

Yep. Tell him what the requirements are, give im a relevant EN or BS standard, give him a bugdet, send him shopping.
Shows are something you have to try before you buy in my opinion. There are just too many variables to just say, hey buddy, what size shoe are you? and then chuck a pair at them.

Some of the issue I have come across
- People who need EE fitting shoes not the standard D width.
- Low heel notch so they always fall off or the heel pops out.
- Metal ridge digs in to foot
- Steel support forms such a big cavern the front of your foot isnt supported and you develop pain there

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:26 am

Thank you all for your helpful advice and links.

We have decided to take a trip out, where he can have his feet measured and try a range of boots without having to return them and the cost that incurs.

However, some of the links provided are excellent and we will use the measurements taken at the shop to give us a better chance of success, if the worker can't find shoes that fit at the

and mortar store.